During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I am planning to bring up a Scream related candidate from the movies (Mickey from the second film). But I'm putting that one on hold for when we near the Resurrection discussion date.
So instead I'm gonna talk about another slasher I rediscovered. The Burning is a 1981 movie and one one of the first of the camp slasher sub-genre. It is one of the first Weinstein productions regarded by some as a Friday the 13th ripoff despite being written before hand. In fact Tom Savini worked on this movie after supposedly refusing to work on the second Friday the 13m because he didn't like that Jason would become he killer.
As for the plot, the film focuses on a group of happy campers and their counsellors trip being terrorized by a vengeful murderer. What were you expecting too much of a complex plot from one of the first Camp Horror movies ? The killer in question is named after, and ostensibly based on the real life urban legend and boogeyman Cropsey.
Who is Cropsey ? What does he do ?
Cropsey was once a counsellor at this one camp and was known to be a drunk, and Child Hater who loved to bully and abuse the kids attending the camp. He's also said to be a pedophile but that isn't really elaborated on. Anyways, Cropsey has been getting away with this for years and after he began following around this one kid Todd, the campers decide to get a little payback by placing a skull candle near Cropsey's bedside to scare him. Cropsey wakes up, and in the panic accidentally starts a fire that burns him alive, but doesn't kill him.
Cropsey spends years in the hospital and was disfigured by his injuries and failed skin grafts before being released after some physical and psychological therapy. However, Cropsey's hatred of kids continued and shortly after release, he murders a prostitute with a pair of scissors he was about to solicit after she got scared of his face. Cropsey heads to a new camp in search of victims, and by coincidence Todd is one of the counselors. Cropsey's history is told in a campfire story by Cropsey himself doesn't make himself known until the campers (most of them around the age of seventeen to thirteen) out on a canoe trip down Devils Creek. A girl named Karen gets back from skinny dipping to find Cropsey had stolen her clothes and hung them across several trees, luring Karen to collect them, and slashes her throat.
Cropsey looses the canoes and leaves the campers isolated but several of them build a raft to head to the other camp, when Cropsey jumps them and butchers the campers in the films most memorable scene. The raft drifts back to the other campers and counsellors where the mutilated bodies of the kids are piled on top. After this discovery and two other campers are killed, the rest of the camp plan to head back and contact police, but Todd stays behind to confront Cropsey when he kidnaps another camper named Alfred and takes him to a mineshaft with the apparent intent on torturing him. Todd faces Cropsey (who is armed with a flamethrower) and while Cropsey's guard is down, Alfred shanks him with his own set of sheers. Cropsey makes one final attack and get his head chopped by an axe. Todd and Alfred then burn Cropsey's body to nothing.
The end of the film implies however that these events were of a campfire story some other campers were telling in some sort of framing device.
Redeeming Qualites or Freudian Excuse ?
No redeeming qualities or speak of. As for Freudian Excuse ? Now when I first discovered the movie years shoc I thought he was meant to be a sympathetic villain like Jason or Angela, and a case of someone who was innocent but victimized. Revisiting the movie years later, I don't think it holds up on account of him stating that he was an abusive drunk and supposedly a child molester before he was burned, meaning he wasn't innocent to begin with. Even if he really hated kids after the accident, which would be understandable, by all accounts he was bad before and the fire only made him worse. In fact they don't elaborate on his past beyond saying he was a bad guy to begin with.
He doesn't talk but he does express his personality through his actions. It should be noted that while he's implied to be a pedo, it isn't really elaborated on with the closet we get to him being pervy towards minors is that little game he plays with Karen's clothes. That's about it.
He is also stated to be a sadist in his backstory and we see pelanty of that in the present day.
Heinous standard
Only real villain. His victims are mostly young teenagers (most couldn't be older than fifteen) but I think what seperates him from most slashers in this genre is he is allegedly a pedophile, but the only thing we see of that is making Karen walk naked through the woods to her death trap, which genuinely humiliates her (and no, I am not gonna crack a Harvey Weinstein joke, because that would be very bad taste).
Edited by Beast on Jul 12th 2019 at 12:14:12 PM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."Mmmmm...here're my issues:
Cropsey never speaks, so it's a bit hard to discern is the first. Second...he's clearly been driven insane by being set on fire and dick or not, him being a pedophile and nasty bastard were just...well....rumors then.
I think I have to reluctantly downvote. Being an abusive drunk is, of course bad, but....it doesn't really justify a group of punk brats immolating you and destroying your life. He seems to have gone clear round the bend
Edited by Lightysnake on Jul 12th 2019 at 10:21:57 AM
I'm going to downvote him too. His Freudian Excuse sounds valid.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)There's an issue with the Disney page, and it's that the examples from the TV-Series are listed under the Live-Action Films folder.
Also because Once Upon a Time is listed under Disney, should we delete it from the Live Action TVM To Z page?
Edited by raat on Jul 12th 2019 at 11:39:41 AM
So, as a heads up, the Disney page
has an error. The folder for tv shows was typed improperly, and all the examples for tv shows are in the live action films section.
Cropsey. Was thinking about looking at the film actually, but I backpedaled after reading the trope page.
For Nyarly's entry, I was thinking about making it a separate entry from his current writeup (though with randomtroper's help, I can offer an extension to his original entry thanks to Nyarly's involvement in other stories like Sangue and The Dreams of Lonely Stars) ala Frieza in Dragon Ball Super.
Also if nobody minds, I reserved discussion for The Boys (2019).
It's Spooky Month!I have read more "Masters of the Universe" material and I have few more EP coming along. Here is the first
What's the Work?
Okay, I told you many times about "Masters of the Universe" franchise. From 2002 to 2004 there was a reboot cartoon going, candidates from which I already proposed. Apparently cartoon was popular enough to get few comic book one-shots and mini-series released, that were based on that cartoon. They were created by MV Creation (company, which made 2002 cartoon) and published by Image comics and Cross Gen (Image released couple one-shots and mini-series and short-lived ongoing series, consisted of 8 issues and Cross Gen released couple mini-series and one one-shot special). Now while comics were based on 2002 cartoon, they had quite a few differences in plot (like "Rise of the Snake Men" comic mini-series adapted the titular "Rise of the Snake Men" two-parter from season 2 of the cartoon, but with a few changes, a short-lived series at first adapts beginning of the plot of one of the episodes from Season 2, but then takes the plot in completely different direction, diverging from the cartoon story and making its own. The rest of issues are original stories.), so I consider them a different universe. Now, I have 3 candidates to propose from this comic series and first I start with familiar baddie.
Enter King Hsss
Who is King Hsss?
Once again, an ancient ruler of Snake Men who terrorized Eternia eons ago, King Hsss just as much of egomaniac genocidal bastard he was in 2002 cartoon (also he had eaten Zodac's brother right in front of him, as in cartoon). Long ago, King Hsss kidnapped the daughter of the member of Council of Elders, the one who would became Nameless One. That daughter was Evil-Lyn and King Hsss kidnapped her to force Nameless One to help him release
◊ giant snake god Serpos from its slumber and take control of it, so he could "cleanse" the whole Eternia and take it over. When Nameless One bringed the amulet, which were supposed to help Hsss control Serpos, Hsss released Serpos and refused
◊ to give Nameless One's daughter back anyway, as he says he still have a use for him. But suddenly Serpos starts attacking Snake Men with Nameless One revealing that he knew that Hsss won't honor his promise and bringed him fake amulet, that can't control Serpos. King Hsss demands
◊ Nameless to give him the real thing, only for Nameless to demand a daughter first. Forced to give him back his daughter, Hsss attacks Nameless, when he revels that he didn't plan on giving Hsss a real thing anyway. After, with the help of mysterious Gar magician, King Hsss was able to take control of Serpos and orders it to decimate the lands of Zalesia
◊ (the lands, which Nameless ruled and protect). As Serpos destroys Zalesia, that mysterious Gar
◊ arrives to Nameless and asks him to give him Evil-Lyn
◊ to raise as his own daughter, so that Nameless could save his city with "clear mind". After Nameless was forced to give up his daughter, he goes and battles Serpos and Snake Men (with the whole Council of Elders joining in later). Together they defeated Serpos and sealed away Snake Men and King Hsss, but it was too late anyway, all lands of Zalesia were destroyed and Nameless Lord of Zalesia was turned by Council of Elders in to a humanoid creature with no face, as a punishment for his dealing with Snake Men (even though he asked help from the Council first and they refused it, because, as any member of the Council were supposed not to have any children, the daughter of Nameless wasn't supposed to exist anyway).
Eons later, King Hsss was freed by combined efforts of descendant of the Snake Men, Kobra Khan and grown up Evil-Lyn. Immediately upon returning, King Hsss set upon his quest for conquest of Eternia once again and turned all Evil Warriors to stone. As he was prepared to eat Evil-Lyn, she begs for her life and promises to lead him to Castle Greyskull, where ancient secrets of the Elders reside. Leading him there, Snake Men faced the whole army of Eternia
◊, who were protecting the Castle. Starting a battle, with countless deaths
◊ from both Eternian people and Snake Men
◊, King Hsss breaches the Castle with Evil-Lyn's help, he fights and poisons Sorceress
◊, leaving her to slow and painful death (He-Man saved her later). As he reaches the place, where power resides, Zodac
◊ fights him
◊ and beats him to apparent death. After Zodac throwed his body
◊ down from the castle, Evil-Lyn destroys a large chunk of Snake Men out of anger, before letting other Snake Men fall to their deaths. After which she escaped.
Surviving the fall, Hsss tries to stop Evil-Lyn to summon Hordak (who was his enemy and competitor and He-Man stopped it anyway) and after that he discovers that Evil-Lyn was mortally wounded by Marzo and tries to use that knowledge to force Nameless One to help him once again to free Serpos and control him. Promising to help his daughter in exchange for the service, King Hsss at first was rejected, but Nameless come around, trying to plan every move and be ready for Hsss's betrayal. Agreeing to help him in exchange for bringing both Skeletor and dying Evil-Lyn to a specific place, Nameless tries to demand that Hsss would heal his daughter first. At first Hsss complies, but immediately after Nameless dropped his guard, King Hsss tied him to a stone throne
◊ with magic and threatens to kill Evil-Lyn
◊ if Nameless did not empower his amulet with his magic, capable of controlling Serpos. Nameless does this, but Hsss simply says that "He (Nameless) should have learned something from their first dealings" and tries to kill both anyway. But He-Man arrives, drives King Hsss and Snake Men off and helps Skeletor in healing Evil-Lyn. The story ends with King Hsss happily announcing that he has meanings to summon Serpos now. Then it says "Story continues in Episode 39 of the cartoon"
◊, even though in the cartoon it's not the place from where story continued and as far as I'm remember King Hsss didn't need any amulet to free Serpos in the cartoon, so it's simply advertising.
Heinousness?
Tried to "cleanse" Eternia with Serpos, used Serpos to destroy and burn large lands and cities of Zalesia, eats innocent people, has a genocidal goals. I think he passes.
Mitigating Qualities?
None. As in cartoon, his "care" for the rest of the Snake Men is merely pragmatism and here he even threatens them with death
◊ several times and didn't give a shit about any of their deaths at all. The one time he reacted at all seeing Snake Men die is when he sees Sepos attacking them and it was only a shock from seeing that he can't control Serpos and that amulet, which Nameless give him was a fake.
Verdict?
I will say Yes.
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Jul 12th 2019 at 11:47:57 AM

Alright, about three weeks ago IO released the first batch of new missions for HITMAN 2018. Since I reserved the game for myself I should probably talk about whether or not there any potential C Ms.
So the three new targets are:
- A street magician who uses hypnosis to rob people.
- A proacher who has specialized in hunting rare animals for rich clients.
- A bank director with a disdain for the middle class who secretly used her customer’s money for financial gambles and has fired one of her employees because she didn’t like his sweater.
As you’ve probably guessed already, none of them is even closes to being a CM. Not in Hitman and not in any other franchise.
We’ve also had four Elusive targets already. These are targets than only appear for a limited time and can only be killed once. If you fail they’re gone forever.
The Elusive Targets so far are:
- A former MI 6 agent who became a freelance assassin and has supposedly been killed multiple times yet always managed to survive. Voiced by Sean Bean.
- The leader of of a Bolivian 1980’s right-wing paramilitary group.
- An art appraiser responsible for a price fixing scheme, that result in several artist losing their fortune and a few suicides.
- A Politian who stole money from her charity and managed to pin the blame on the director. It's implied she later had the director murdered and made it look like a suicide.
All in all, a bunch of nasty people, but still not heinous enough. The only one I think could’ve done enough to qualify is the paramilitary leader but his crimes are only vaguely describe and complete off-screen.
So nothing yet but maybe there’s a candidate in the second batch. Although I seriously doubt it.