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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#171801: Jul 10th 2019 at 7:35:19 AM

Anyone have an issue with including newspaper comics with comic books?

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#171805: Jul 10th 2019 at 7:53:15 AM

[tup] Pedo. Man, remember when Dick Tracy villains were just standard mobsters with names like “Lispy” and “Peaches De Cream”?

It's Spooky Month!
MovieFan2000 Since: Jan, 2016
#171806: Jul 10th 2019 at 7:54:02 AM

[tup] the unnamed pedophile. Easy keeper.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#171807: Jul 10th 2019 at 7:57:53 AM

Cool. For the main CM page, I'll just add a parenthetical (includes Newspaper Comics)

For the main comic page, I'll just add to the header: Newspaper Comics can also be found here.

EDIT: Lighty, you mean Joe Staton (and Mike Curtis)?

So tonight, I'll submit this, request the Newspaper Comics stuff, and request cutting Bellion?

This image good for Death Adder, or are there canon issues since it's only one ending?

Edited by ACW on Jul 10th 2019 at 11:10:31 AM

ReddishGuy1 Since: Jul, 2014
#171808: Jul 10th 2019 at 8:12:31 AM

Ryoma Sengoku's Pure Evil entry was kind of vague about the extent of his villainy so I rewrote it. Let me know what you all think.

Original

Professor Ryoma Sengoku/Kamen Rider Duke is a researcher who created most of the Armored Rider gears. Intending to become a god with the Forbidden Fruit, Ryoma will exploit and backstab anyone to get what he desires and is a Dirty Coward who will use any cheap tactic to win. Damaging Helheim Forest with his experiments, threatening to destroy the world, Ryoma reacts with apathy. Manipulating Mitsuzane Kureshima into almost killing Kouta Kazuraba by promising to save another's life, Ryoma reveals his promise to be a lie before murdering Mitsuzane's Love Interest in cold blood, taking the Forbidden Fruit which was fused with her heart to obtain its power for himself.

Revised

Professor Ryoma Sengoku/Kamen Rider Duke is a researcher for the Yggdrasill Corporation who created most of the Armored Rider gears. Unlike his comrade Takatora Kureshima, Ryoma does not share his goals of saving humanity and secretly desires for the Helheim Forest to invade so he can become a god with its Forbidden Fruit, not caring about the billions of deaths it would cause. When Takatora's altruism get in the way of his plans, Ryoma coldly attempts to murder him before abandoning everyone else in Zawame City to die when the Overlord Inves invade. Ryoma later makes a deal with Mitsuzane Kureshima to save Mai's life if he kills Kouta Kazuraba, only for him to murder to get the Forbidden Fruit inside of her, which he gleefully admits to Mitsuzane when he accomplishes the task.

Just imagine something here.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#171809: Jul 10th 2019 at 8:16:04 AM

[tup] The Pedophile

Good luck Nerd.

And yeah, I get the frustration of not finding a candidate. It is really hard.

To the thread in general: Sorry, I'm very busy those days and thus I haven't propose anyone and I tend to skip over certain candidates. Sorry

Watch me destroying my country
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#171810: Jul 10th 2019 at 8:25:09 AM

[tup] to the Dick Tracy villain.

So should I put that writeup in the drafts, or does it still need work?

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#171811: Jul 10th 2019 at 8:26:20 AM

@Reddish Guy Sengoku's writeup looks pretty good IMO

@Kazuya Prota I can relate to that right now...Currently I have no candidates to think of and still try at my best to find one and the only thing I really need to do is posting Markov's image to the drafts... Which reminds me

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#171812: Jul 10th 2019 at 8:27:16 AM

Elfen, you have probably the biggest to-do list of us by far. If you want new candidates, there's a good place to start.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#171813: Jul 10th 2019 at 8:30:08 AM

Anyways, I'll say this quickly as possible: I haven't watch the entire walkthrough of the game yet but I'll trust Lighty and Scraggle's judgement like I did with Fell comic: Nobody counts in The Sinking City as a CM. However, for Magnificent Bastard, I think I have a new angle to work with and I'll try at my best to propose that guy.

As for Kenja no Mago/The Wise Grandson: Quick question, what's your stance on a villain who started to have a legitimate excuse at first and after he accomplish his goals, he has nothing to do anymore and let his minions do as they please...But when the minions of said villain cause a huge collateral damage to a certain kingdom in order to get the villain back on track, the villain ends up praising them for the destruction they had cause and ended up joining them to cause more bloodshed?

[up] Oh right...Me and my big mouth sad

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jul 10th 2019 at 10:30:51 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#171814: Jul 10th 2019 at 8:35:14 AM

On that note about to do lists, I'm not quite sure how I feel on having particularly expansive ones in general. It's fine to call upcoming media but I'm not really comfortable for us to expand that and go, "This has been out forever but it's mine! No one else touch it and I get to hold on to it for as long as I feel like!" It's almost like holding candidates captive so we can be the one to do them. Some react more gracefully about requests for something to be taken but that's an attitude I really think should just be the norm, both here and on MB.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Nightmare101 Death and destruction Since: Jun, 2019 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Death and destruction
#171816: Jul 10th 2019 at 8:36:38 AM

Yo, everyone, i'm Nightmare 101. I'm the guy who recommended Elfen to check out Sonic Forces Chapter 2 fanfic in the PM's. I have a question regarding these two quotes from Clyde the Jackal, are they good enough to count?

  • Super Sonic: I'll give you a chance, Clyde.

  • Clyde: Huh? What are you talking about?

  • Super Sonic: Quit playing dumb, you know what I'm talking about. What you're doing is wrong, but I don't believe it's too late for you to change. If you give up now, this'll all be over.

  • Clyde: Hahahahaha! Why should I? I've been wanting this life since I was a boy. I have the world in my hands and I can do whatever I want. Why would I want to give it up all up?

  • Super Sonic: But you're hurting innocent people!

  • Clyde: So? They're weaklings. Their lives mean nothing to me. In this world, the strong always tramples the weak. It's been that way since the beginning of time, my friend.

  • Super Sonic: That's nonsense and you know it! No matter how strong you are, you have no right to take nor ruin other people's lives.

  • Clyde: That's where you're wrong, my friend. With this power, I'm a god to them. Which means that I have every right to past judgement and make the decisions to whether they live or die. Why? Because I am above them. Inferior life forms should always serve their superior. If they disobey, fail, or try to oppose me, they'll be punished and eliminated, without question.

  • Super Sonic: I've been fighting evil for as long as I can remember. Out of all the villains I've faced in my life, you pal, are the worst!

  • Clyde: Nice of you to say, Hedgehog. Now, shall we continue our battle?

  • Super Sonic: Yes, and whatever it takes, I'm going to stop you.

  • Clyde: And you'll die trying.

- Clyde in Forces Chapter 2, where Super Sonic tried to give him a chance to redeem himself, but the jackal rejects it.

  • Clyde: Now here's what I'm gonna do. I won't kill you now. I'm going to make you suffer unimaginable pain until I get bored and decide to finish you off. You can cry and beg all you want, it won't convince me to stop. I'm going to make you wish you don't exist in this world. Oh, and don't worry about your family. I'll make sure they'll get the chance to see you again... in the afterlife.

- Clyde the jackal, in Memories of Infinite's past.

I believe the second one has more of a chance of counting, but what do you guys think?

Nightmare 101 is a troper who wishes to become an official writer.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#171817: Jul 10th 2019 at 8:38:46 AM

TBH, I kind of agree. There's common courtesy at play with some things (and I've been usually fine if someone gets to something before me), but my general opinion at this point is work at cutting them down if they're there. I've been putting in an effort for that now because I don't think it's fair to hold a ton over like that. I've always seen the TD list as more a reasonable wish list than a reservation

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#171818: Jul 10th 2019 at 8:40:32 AM

Same, I'm fine if there's one or two things folks really want to do and politely decline if someone else requests taking it but if someone has jacked 50 things and gets up in arms about anyone touching any of it, that's just becoming ridiculous.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#171819: Jul 10th 2019 at 8:43:51 AM

Like I said, it's why I'm making a major effort to slash mine down now and why I'm open to requests there.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#171821: Jul 10th 2019 at 8:58:31 AM

With my To-Do list, I only add stuff I'll get to sooner or later. Currently, I only have Rasputin the Mad Monk (if anyone's seen it, is it worth watching to see if he counts?).

Is Bellion a consensus cut?

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#171822: Jul 10th 2019 at 9:02:48 AM

I think so... a (probably wrong) brief count over prior discussion looks like he topped at 12 upvotes, we've had a couple flips and a total of around 8 no's or so after my post. Someone can go double count if they'd like because I was pretty lazy about tracking [lol]

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#171823: Jul 10th 2019 at 9:10:34 AM

@lightly: So how many, candidates from Dick Tracey are we talking about.

It's been around since the 30 s.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#171824: Jul 10th 2019 at 9:12:57 AM

As of now, not as many as you may think. Another one or two from my readings. The heinous standard gets somewhat diluted and I haven’t really looked into the sci-fi era. I’ll likely check out the 1940s serials though.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#171825: Jul 10th 2019 at 9:15:21 AM

[tup] Unnamed pedophile.


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