During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes to Jo, no to Arianna.
Now, having watch the Seven Deadly Sins movie the other day, there's a candidate I'm going to—begrudgingly—suggest we cut: Bellion.
His writeup to start:
- The Seven Deadly Sins the Movie: Prisoners of the Sky: Bellion is the demonic personification of spite and egotism. Being one of the Demon Clan soldiers who fought in the Holy War, Bellion aspired to be appointed to the Demon King's elite force, the Ten Commandments, by invading the Celestial Realm and slaughtering Goddesses and Celestials. However, when he was rejected by Meliodas, the leader of the Ten Commandments, he and his team, the Six Knights of Black, brought a Demon Beast to the Celestial city of Sky Temple and began killing and destroying before being sealed away by the Goddesses. 3,000 years later, the seal wears off and Bellion and his team begin massacring the citizens of Sky Temple to collect souls to devour and sacrifice to the Demon Beast, with Bellion fighting against a redeemed Meliodas and impaling him on a demon-killing sword. When his teammates fall, Bellion sacrifices their souls to the Beast and has it restored to its original power, commanding it to attack the most populated areas for maximum casualties.
Now, this isn't inaccurate but I've got a problem with him... namely, the scope of his targets. To elaborate, we don't get an exact figure on the population of the village surrounding the Sky Temple he targets but that's what his villainy is restricted to, both in the Holy War and when he returns in the film to try to drain their souls and attack them with his followers. Never does he go beyond this and even when he gives his life to power Indura, he still keeps to targeting the population on the sky island. He summons the monster by sacrificing the souls of his five comrades but again, keep in mind what his atrocities are limited to before going on to the next paragraph.
Anywhere else, targeting this many innocents would probably get you a pass but the problem is that Fraudrin, the Big Bad of season 2 (who, while a fantastic character, doesn't count for a litany of reasons) exists in this world. Not only is Bellion substantially stronger than Fraudrin as we can tell from his fight with Meliodas but Fraudrin is responsible for manipulating Dreyfuss and Hendrickson (the Big Bad Duumvirate of season 1)... causing much chaos and bloodshed for the entire country of Britannia and gets even nastier when he goes hands on in the second season to try it himself, pushing Bellion beneath himself on the heinous totem pole.
So there you have it, I think he's a nasty prick with nothing good about himself but I just don't think he stands out with the likes of Fraudrin running around, or even what Hendrickson did to Britannia while he was working with the possessed Dreyfuss.
Thoughts?
Edited by 43110 on Jul 9th 2019 at 10:48:41 AM
I'd say cut Bellion.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Jo Slade
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Uragami's pic
Senator Mitchell
To raat: Move Briz to Faux Affably Evil.
Viktor Saint-Demain.
General Hsiao
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Eh... Sure on cutting Bellion.
Alright...thanks for informing me regarding Fell. Yeah, even if no one counts. I actually quite like on trying new things especially on Comic Books. Despite no one counts as a CM at the end, the comic is decent and I quite like Detective Fell as a character. Reminds me a bit of Kyle Hyde from Hotel Dusk so yeah...
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
The Draftsman of Doom
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Arianna.
Jo, Viktor, Mitchell and Hsiao.
I'm kinda late but welcome back Paireon, even though I wasn't there when you started the whole thread.
Take care G-Editor!
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
I remember Jo Slade... She was a revolting piece of work, and she’s one of the easier bosses in the game. to her.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Arianna and Bellion
Goku Black
Jo
Bellion and arianna
Look the thing here is the red court as Awhole are "extremely vile" which is probably the reason that no one seems to really care In-Universe that Harry caused there extinction. There a little group of monsters who literally enslave and dine on children and run forced prostution rings. If they had actually won the war they were planning to sweep into wartorn and unstable regions and make them far worse.
Plus the chemical attack well bad isn't quite the same as her father who ordered a gas attack on a civilian hospital which and I'm not joking here Killed hundreds of civilians. So I don't think she's quite bad enough compared to dear old dad.
Edited by miraculous on Jul 9th 2019 at 8:55:36 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Mitchell and Jo
Arianna
Gentle Laborer
Wasn't expecting to see Jo here, the EP does make a case tho.
Jo, Viktor, Mitchell, General Hsiao.
Arianna and Bellion
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jul 9th 2019 at 1:01:38 PM
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
People, I have a candidate, from Edgar Pierre Jacobs's Blake and Mortimer, and more precisely the first story, The Secret of the Swordfish.
I'm talking about the Big Bad, the emperor Basam-Damdu of the Yellow Empire. Guy was inspired by Hitler and Stalin, so expect a nice fella.
What's the work?
The Secret of The Swordfish was the first story in the Blake and Mortimer Belgian comic album series by Edgar P. Jacobs. It describes how a far eastern empire takes over the world and the adventures of two Britons, Blake and Mortimer (helped by their Indian Muslim friend Ahmed Nasir) as they try to bring about the development of a weapon, the Swordfish, which will enable them to fight back. Drawing elements from the recent events of World War II as well as the emerging Cold War, the trilogy is set in an alternate reality of the 1950s, in which a Third World War is played out. It was originally released in the Tintin magazine between September 26, 1946 and September 8, 1949.
- Fun fact : Jacobs and Hergé were close friends, and Jacobs assisted Hergé in colorizing the black and white strips of the earlier Tintin albums. Under the name "Jacobini", Jacobs even made several cameos in Tintin albums. They also tried to create a comic book together but never went any further than a pilot.
Let's talk about our candidate!
Who is Basam-Damdu? What has he done?
Few things are known about his origins, or how he became such a monster, but it is known that Basam-Damdu is an usurpator, who took over the Yellow Empire. He has his ambassadors claim that he will help keep the peace... And then he attacks world capitals, destroying Paris, London, Bombay, Rome, London, America and others world capitals in order to break the free world's minds, and successfully takes over the world.
In the second volume, Basam-Damdu and the Great Council summons Olrik, Basam-Damdu's Dragon-in-Chief, and does not hide their displeasure. The Yellow Empire is having more and more difficulty controlling their land; rebellions and acts of terrorism have continued worldwide, and despite their best efforts, they have still not been able to sweat the Swordfish plans out of Mortimer, whom Olrik captured. As chief of the Empire's security service, Olrik is the natural scapegoat for this state of affairs and is essentially blamed for the resistance against the Yellow Empire. If Mortimer doesn't reveals the plans in two days, Basam-Damdu will sent someone to torture him, all the while subtly threatening Olrik.
In the third vokume, Basam-Damdu, seeing that La Résistance is slowly starting to fight back, loses his mind. He wants to launch the tons of atomic rockets on the whole world out of spite. When one of his advisors tells him that he risks destroying the Empire as well, Basam-Damdu flat-out says that he doesn't care about his own empire, saying that what he cares about is his will being carried out. When Olrik reports, Basam-Damdu, due to Olrik's failures, wants him to be strapped to the first rocket. As he's about to fire, a squadron of Swordfish nuke his capital, taking the Empire and him with it before he does so. note
Heinousness?
Easily takes the cake. The only other notable villain is Olrik, Basam-Damdu's Dragon-in-Chief (and who became Blake and Mortimer's Arch-Enemy) but Basam-Damdu tried to kill him and had already crossed the Moral Event Horizon before the book even started. So yeah, in the work in itself, he easily takes it.
Redeeming Qualities?
Zlitch. Basam-Damdu is ultimately nothing more than a backstabbing scumbag who wants to Take Over the World or to destroy it should he fail. Add to that that he feels increasingly superior to La Résistance, even though without Olrik, he likely wouldn't have went that far.
Verdict ?
I think he can make it.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jul 10th 2019 at 2:00:46 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Shin Megami Tensei IV
The Yellow Peril makes me hesitate a bit, but...Times and his evil really don't look racially offensive. Definitely not a character that could come off well under modern audiences but, overall...
Well.
Basam-Damdu
Edited by KazuyaProta on Jul 9th 2019 at 11:35:44 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
The trope is ultimately subverted, since Basam-Damdu is actually inspired by European dictators, more precisely Stalin and Hitler.
On top of that, heroic Asian characters appeared in the series such as the Professor Sato in Professor Sató's Three Formulae.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Basam-Damdu
to Basam-Damdu
Damdu
Basam-Damdu.
Current mood: sick of your shit
Basam-Damdu
So guys, I think I'm gonna officially retire from this thread. I don't contribute very often and when I do, it's usually a failed proposal. I'll be dropping all of my claims on upcoming works, so feel free to reserve them.
EDIT: I may pop back in once more for RWBY: After the Fall when I get my hands on a copy.
Sooo... I think that's about it. Read my fanfic and remember, reality is an illusion, the universe is a hologram, buy gold, bye!
Edited by SumDumNerd on Jul 10th 2019 at 1:05:25 PM
Read "Ghost Stories of Remnant" here.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Basam-Damdu
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
You’ll be missed, Nerd.
Also RIP Rip Torn, aka Maax
Edited by therealjackieboy on Jul 10th 2019 at 12:07:12 PM
"No running in the halls!"
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Whelp. See ya Nerd! Hope things go well for you.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
@ Yam: I understand, it is a little ambiguous, but...mmm...I'm just uncomfortble with multiple factors there.
Regrding Fell...I have to say I don't think anyone counts. The guy with the dead fetuses...okay, he's the worst, but he's so freaking insane, and so sparsely characterized I don't think there's much to discuss here. The problem with Fell is the worst have mitigating qualities or are despicable, but not heinous enough (like the guy who murdered his girlfriend horrifically, and the father who abused his daughter in a sickening manner)....nobody counts there, sadly.