During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I understand, and if the movie did take place in Germany, we could see Lucien doing that. But i would also like to add that a "collaborator" doesn't execute people in concentration camps; historically, their "job" is to spy on the population and help the secret police in finding potential resistance fighters or people that disapproved of Nazism in general.
Yup. He collaborates not because he believes in Nazism, but purely For the Evulz, which is why he ends up betraying the Milice for a pocket watch. He doesn't respond to anyone, he acts independently out of his own free will.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jul 6th 2019 at 10:41:31 AM
Heres my next horror novel ep
So whats the work?
Shutter is a 2015 YA book by Courtney Alameda.
Micheline Helsing is a tetrachromat — a girl who sees the auras of the undead in a prismatic spectrum. As one of the last descendants of the Van Helsing lineage, she has trained since childhood to destroy monsters both corporeal and spiritual: the corporeal undead go down by the bullet, the spiritual undead by the lens. With an analog SLR camera as her best weapon, Micheline exorcises ghosts by capturing their spiritual energy on film. She's aided by her crew: Oliver, a techno-whiz and the boy who developed her camera's technology; Jude, who can predict death; and Ryder, the boy Micheline has known and loved forever.
When a routine ghost hunt goes awry, Micheline and the boys are infected with a curse known as a soulchain. As the ghostly chains spread through their bodies, Micheline learns that if she doesn't exorcise her entity in seven days or less, she and her friends will die. Now pursued as a renegade agent by her monster-hunting father, Leonard Helsing, she must track and destroy an entity more powerful than anything she's faced before . . . or die trying.
So who is the villain and what has he done?
Look its Van Helsing. Who do you think this candidate would be?
Vlad the Impaler aka count Dracula himself is the main villain of the novel having taken the alias of Luca. Anyway the backstory is pretty much the same as the original book Dracula, Van helsing and the rest of the characters in the original defeated him and killed him after his attempt to take over London . His ghost though survived and swore vengeance on the helsing, stoker, seward and harker families. To this hes stalks femnale members of these four families and has them tortured, Mind Rape 'd before killing them and having them trasnfromed into his brides. Hes done this over centuries.
In the present of the novel, he has the heroine s mother caprured. There he has her turned into a voracious monster which forces her father to have to kill her. After her death, he has her soul tortured till she breaks. He makes it seem like it was her daughter's fault this happened and that she should seek to kill her in order to payback the fact this happened to her.
The two start a torture and massacre spree in a hospital in order to draw in Micheline and her friends. There they have people killed in gruesome murders before Miheline arrives to stop him. There able to beat her mother back (Luca was just overseeing this and made sure to avoid being seen by them for his plans) but she has micheleine and her friends infected with her misama (ectoplasm), this creates soul chains in there souls. They escape but should they not get her exorcised in seven days, then they die.
Anyway Micheline in order to find this ghost uses her powers to summon a spirit from the other side to help her (She didint know the female ghost was her mother till near the end of the novel) and the spirit that answers is Luca....
He has her set up in part due to the kinda stupid idea of trusting a creepy spirit from beyond. So he lures them into a trap. They discover its at the house of Dr. Stoker (A descdenat of well Bram Stoker). There its murdered several members within the house including stoker's wife and turned them into corpse puppets and has had his daughter possessed but bot before having her eyes ripped out. There able to beat it off and even save Stoker's daughters life albeit at the cost of her ever seeing again sadly.
Now it comes to Luca's ultimate plan: He intends to break open the Van hesling isntuite. This is a prison which holds hundreds of captured monsters who are here for study and containment. Letting them out would result in the deaths of hundrds of thousands as some of these things can kill dozens and there all mindless demons basically.
Anyway they get there and Micheline discovers taht the ghost that cursed her is her mother. Her mother has truley lost it and has now possesed her love interest. Luca has compleltly destroyed her mind and made her think that Micheline and the van hselinsg are to blame. Micheline though is eventually able to reach her mother after separing her from the possesion and convinces her to let go off the pain and pass on. That it was luca that did this to her. She eventually accepst and passes on.
Anyway Micheline goes after luca now and takes on and destroys his minions (brides). She confronts him before he reveals himself as the count himself back for revnege. He has always despised the four families. He plans to turn her into one of his brides and eventually regain life so he can begin his conquest which he attempted back when he was still alive (Less undead?). Anyway the calverly arrives and there able to beat him back, he unfornutely turns into a bat and escapes through a window. The end.
No. This is intended as a sorta direct conuition of the original book. So hes angry at the Helsing, Stoker, Harker and Seward afmilies because there ancestors stopped him from an attampted take over of London.
Other redeeming qualities?
Nope. He is a spirit trapped like this but even he says that hes not really despressed to be like this so much as angry and wantning to return to life to finish what he started. Which is not good at all.
Heinous standard?
Big Bad and sets it. More then enough here. Far, Far over baseline.
Edited by miraculous on Jul 6th 2019 at 6:51:07 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lucien and Dracula.
@ ACW I trimmed down Kenta and the Warlord's entries. Not sure if it's going to be enough, however.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Dracula. Is it worth noting that when Bram Stoker thought up Dracula, he apparently never knew of Vlad the Impaler ? The Dearg Due of Irish folkore may have had more to do with Dracula's inspiration.
Edited by Beast on Jul 6th 2019 at 9:22:24 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."Yeah I heard about that. He apperntly picked that name since it sounded cool.
The idea of him being Vlad the Impaler came later but became ingrained in adaptations to the point where pretty much all adaptation use it as his real name like this one.
Anyway there is another Dracula who I know counts and me and lighty will get to him eventually. PM me if your curious
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Sure to Drac.
Warlord's still a bit lengthy, but it'll do if it can't be trimmed any more. Kenta's fine.
Captain Planet de-potholings:
- Captain Planet and the Planeteers has these two Knights of Cerebus, who are proudly motivated more by sadistic enjoyment than mere greed:
- Zarm, the Spirit of War and Destruction, is arguably the strongest and most deadly adversary of Gaia and the Planeteers. A former Spirit of the Earth exiled by Gaia, Zarm dedicates himself to bringing ruin and destruction in all forms to Gaia and all she protects out of vengeful spite, having consumed at least one planet to the tides of destruction and constantly attempting to do the same to Earth. Zarm attempts to initiate all-out nuclear war on Earth; painfully reverts Gaia to a withered old lady incapable of stopping the Earth from dying and taking over the Earth for a ten-year-period of time where the Earth has become desiccated and ruined; coins a strategy he calls "Scorched Earth" by convincing world leaders to obliterate their own land and people—and claims to have been "a part of every important tyrant in history"—and nearly dooms the Planeteers' efforts to stop an alternate timeline where the Eco-Villains' descendants rule the planet by smugly ordering a young girl Ma-Ti saves murdered. A sadist drunk on his own capacity for destruction, Zarm is one of the single greatest sources of human misery within the show.
- The appropriately-named Verminous Skumm is a humanoid rat-man who, despite being far less powerful than the aforementioned Zarm, manages to be just as evil. Taking a sick pleasure in the polluted and festering, Skumm's schemes vary from willingly endangering and trying to destroy entire cities, and include deliberately trying to destroy an entire city with a cloud of acid rain and flooding Venice with oversized, carnivorous rats; peddling mind-altering drugs and even murdering Linka's cousin Boris through them; attempting to bait two sides of the Arab–Israeli Conflict into using a nuclear bomb in Jerusalem Mount, as well as bringing nukes into The Troubles and apartheid South Africa; and attempting to flood the entire world with his "Rat Rot" chemical to turn everyone into his mutated rat slaves. Skumm's end goal is to destroy the civilized world and enslave what remains to his mutated Rat Men followers to rule over them all as a king. Happily admitting " I'm ignorance; I'm fear; I'm hate" and taking delight in everything from ruining the life of a single person—a teenager with AIDS—for giggles, to the attempted annihilation of millions of lives, Skumm stands out as the darkest of the recurring Eco-Villains due to his propensity to target people rather than the environment.
Edited by ACW on Jul 6th 2019 at 11:47:47 AM
Anyways, mein writeups... I hold Miko's writeup until Mimic EP all of the potential candidates from the manga:
- Black Sun (by Marc Andreyko): Azuras is an ancient demon lord who conspired together with the CEO of Yama Inc, Zhao Sun, in order to make toys known as Wrist Dragons and is also responsible for the demon attack that happened in Yama Inc. Warehouse. Introduced by twisting a woman's neck, Azuras then shoots Zhao's police brother, Hsu Sun, while possessing Zhao, telling him that Zhao shoot his own brother after he refused to confess. Testing his powers by letting the demons possessing innocent people and seemingly stopped by the heroine Margaret Sun, Azuras taunts Margaret that he is her real father before throwing her from the skyscraper. It was soon revealed that the Wrist Dragons that he and Zhao made were contaminated by Azuras' powers as Azuras intends to control all of the children to cause mass chaos across Hong Kong. After he kidnaps Margaret, he attempts to convince his daughter to join his side and when she refuses, he sexually abuses her and gleefuly proclaims that he will make his daughter suffer.
- Revenant: Yhagoro is the leader of the cult called "Children of the Change" who are notorious by terrorizing the Island of Akhuilon by performing raids on other towns including Misthaven and kidnaps several innocent people and brainwash them to become the members of the cult. Anyone who defies Yhagoro will be brought into the Chamber of Tortures where innocent people are tortured to death or forced to become a slave so that they could find a malicious ancient treasure known as Nakranoth. Revealed to be the disciple of Demon King Kraxxus, Yhagoro kidnaps the Akhuilon ruler's daughter and attempts to sacrifice her to awaken his master and bring the end of the world.
Thoughts? Also @ACW since the story of Black Sun is rather self-contained, I guess put him in the bottom of the tree in Wildstorm Universe section of DC Comics
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jul 6th 2019 at 10:32:56 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."@ACW: Satanic Archetype best suits Zarm. Leave it as the main pothole while getting rid of the others.
I fixed Zarm. I guess he'll just stay with 3 potholes then? (EDIT: Scratch that, Bad Future and Historical Rap Sheet work.)
Anyway, according to this
and this
, Black Sun's not listed, so I THINK we're okay putting it on the main comics page, at least for now.
Edited by ACW on Jul 6th 2019 at 11:45:49 AM
Yea to Lucien and a yes to Dracula while I'm at it.
Now, Scraggle recommended this to me (he's on vacation this weekend, so don't expect too many replies or burden the guy over much)
What's the Work?
Flesh and Silver is a 1990 Sci Fi novel by Stephen L. Burns in a futuristic, colonized galaxy...the hero is Marchey, one of the elite doctors known as Bergmann Surgeons, those who have given up their humanity to wander from emergency to emergency...Marchey is a broken man, lost in the fog of life, trying to recapture what it meant to be a human being as he struggles with alcoholism and pain....until he is taken to the moon of Ananke where he encounters its monstrous dictator....Brother Fist.
Who is Brother Fist?
An ancient man, dying of cancer. Fist is a withered, tyrannical monster who wants one thing more than all else: he wants to live, and Marchey, as the best doctor alive, is the man to do it for him, despite Marchey's protests. Fist makes it clear that this not an option....and we see how Fist rose to power and runs Ananke.
Ananke is relatively primitive, and Fist had no problem taking control, hijacking their religion to his own ends and becoming a god to the populace. Any rebellion is put down and the perpetrator massacred, with Fist subjecting the population to even worse. Enforcing his religion, the people are made to toil in what could be described as a paradise fit only for men like Stalin and Pol Pot. Ananake is a brutal gulag, with the people worked as slaves, tormented, beaten, thrown away as expendable, all under Fist's regime, while Fist works things into the religion just for the sadistic joy of seeing them suffer all the more. For instance, when Marchey points out Fist's religion forbids medicine? Fist just laughs and says that's for the idiot masses so he can enjoy that much....he and Marchey are different.
His right hand woman, Scylla, his enforcer? Now that's even worse...her real name is Angel and she was the daughter of a leader of Ananake. When Fist took over? He tore her mind apart, reprogramming her into his bodyguard and right hand woman, who is fanatically devoted to him. Then he made her flay her own mother alive, watching with sadistic relish at the pain of the mother, before he used 'Scylla' as an enforcer, with dark signs he sexually abuses her as well (licking his lips and describing how 'eager to please' she is)....when Marchey defies fist, he begins to help Angel regain her personality, whereupon she realizes what Fist truly is and turns on him. Fist tries to murders Marchey, but is subdued and removed from power, spending the rest of the novel playing head games with the surgeon as his power vacuum leads to outside forces trying to destroy or exploit Ananke, which Angel defends.
At the novel's end, Ananke is saved, Marchey has recovered his humanity and seems to have a close connection to Angel...Fist? Is powerless, and trapped in his shell of a body, slowly and painfully dying of cancer eating him out. Good riddance.
Heinousness?
Fist makes good use of all his screentime. We see what he does to Ananke and it's a goddamn terror, with all the horror it can be played there. Fist embodies the worst of humanity, make no question and what he does to poor Angel?
Mitigating Qualities?
Hahahaha, no. Every single time Fist is onscreen, we make it clear how evil he is. The man is a tyrant who loves seeing everyone else suffer. He's a sadistic psychopath with a god-complex who manages not an ounce of sympathy from anyone. Even after being removed from power, he spends all his time trying to corrupt Marchey and being an evil prick.
Conclusion?
A very, very, very easy keeper.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jul 6th 2019 at 10:24:34 AM