During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I’ll abstain on T for the time being.
@Polar Phantom Having seen Toy Story 4 myself, I agree that Gabby Gabby doesn’t even come close to counting, nor does she do anything to jack up the heinous standard like Lotso did. Not only that, but I hardly call her a actual villain due to her sympathic motives, redemption, her affable nature, her genuine friendship with Forky, and the fact that she never does something truly villainous throughout the entire movie. She does seek to take Woody’s voice box, but that was out of desperation other than malice. Also, her redemption was a really well executed scene, especially since that poor kid that Gabby found was lost and crying, which is a very heart wrenching sight. Hell, the movie itself was heart wrenching as well, especially the ending.
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Jul 5th 2019 at 4:48:42 AM
After much thinking,
T.
Seeing Toy Story 4, Gabby Gabby is so far removed from being a true villain that I suspect this is Disney and Pixar trying to invert the arguably overused "spoiler villain" trope by instead of having the seemingly good guy be revealed to be Evil All Along, the seemingly bad guy is revealed to be Good All Along (unless you count the few seconds before the villain reveal).
I'm almost inclined to say No Antagonist applies here, but she does act in opposition to Woody for most of the film, so I don't think it counts.
Lotso ain't goin' anywhere. He's still uniquely evil for the series.
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!@Polar Phantom Welcome back Polar. Yeah, just wanna say I'm happy that Dominique got up. Gonna give you a present in P Ms btw.
Also yea... Nobody in TS 4 counts
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jul 5th 2019 at 8:03:31 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."Who's Dom...
>Sees NTG EP and Lore Deluxe points...
Yea... An absolute no to him.
Anyways, even if Luther doesn't count at the end of the day, I'll thank ~Master Joseph for recommending me this game. I'll let him having his own opinions on the game.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
No. We don't need to give a Monster Subpage for Video Game Companies.
Just because there are enough CMs for a potential Monster Subpage doesn't always mean we should create that subpage. Remember what Lighty said about a Cthulhu Mythos subpage some time ago?
Edited by Draxterrus on Jul 6th 2019 at 2:17:04 AM
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.I'll give T a
.
I've honestly had a drought of candidates so I haven't been able to offer any lately. I doubt I'll be getting a new one for a while considering the games I plan to play to next doesn't seem to have any candidates or have been checked beforehand.
Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - GiselleI'll abstain on High T, but a
to Richter.
What is the work? Lacombe, Lucien is a 1974 cult-classic French film that's basically American Psycho in Nazi-occupied France. As possibly my favorite, and one of the scariest examples of a Villain Protagonist i've ever seen in fiction, our candidate is none other than the titular character himself.
Who is he? Lucien Lacombe is a 17-year-old boy living with his mother in the village of Souillac; his father is absent from his life because the man is a prisoner of war. An attractive and innocent-looking young man who works as a janitor at a nursing home, Lucien seems like a regular French boy in the surface... except for the fact that he acts like a robot. In his Establishing Character Moment, Lucien stops working, checks if there are people watching him, and kills a bird for fun. Interested in joining La Résistance not because he wants to fight Nazism but to finally have an identity in the war, Lucien is rejected by Robert Peyssac, the commander and also his old schoolteacher, for his own well-being. After abandoning his job, Lucien is introduced to the Milice aka the French Gestapo after being caught spying on them, and reveals information about Peyssac, leading to his capture; while initially oblivious to the Milice's methods, Lucien shows no reaction to seeing the man being tortured by them.
Even after the Milice's maid advises him that the Nazis will lose the war, Lucien still joins the Milice as one of their agents, helping them in capturing a doctor affiliated with the resistance while he tormented the man's son, taking the chance to loot everything that interests him. Obsessed with the apptly-named France, the beautiful daughter of one of his associates, Albert, who's also a jew, Lucien does everything to try to impress her and they eventually become lovers. Lucien joins in on an attack against the resistance, and instead of placing more importance on his mission, Lucien gets distracted trying to shoot a rabbit for fun, showing just how he doesn't care for the resistance or the Milice. Threatening to give Albert to the Milice if France isn't allowed to go to a party at the headquarters, France is called a "filthy jew" by the maid and runs to the bathroom to cry; what does Lucien do? He gives her support? He leaves her by herself? No, he takes advantage of her emotional state to manipulate her into having sex.
When Albert visits the Milice to talk with Lucien about his daughter, he is taken by them for being a Jew and put on a train; we never see Albert again, but we can only assume that he was also tortured like the rest of the Milice's victims. Lucien then goes to see his girlfriend to inform her of her father's fate, and accuses him of being responsible for his own demise in front of her. Disgusted, France fights him, and instead of calming her down, Lucien slaps and rapes her. Put in charge of the "interrogation" of a prisoner with bruises on his face, the man is shocked to see a boy like Lucien working with the Nazis and tries to give him a chance to redeem to himself, and Lucien callously rejects it by humiliating the man and repeating the same sentence twice: "I don't like people talking down to me". The HQ is attacked by the resistance, and again, Lucien shows no reaction to seeing all of his friends dead.
Alongside an SS soldier, Lucien is sent to capture his girlfriend and her grandmother; initially indifferent to their fate, Lucien changes his mind when his partner steals a pocket watch, a pocket watch that "belonged" to Lucien. Killing his partner solely to retrieve the pocket watch, Lucien is left with no choice but to escape with France and her grandmother. The epilogue shows Lucien living happily with France in the countryside, but something is... wrong; France has developed what can only be described as Stockholm Syndrome, we see her having fun with Lucien, and in the next scene she is contemplating if she should kill him. Lucien himself doesn't seem to care; when France tries to have a romantic moment with him, he sadistically lets ants bite her foot just to get a laugh out of it, and watches as she screams for him in the forest with a cold stare on his face. Before the film ends, we are informed that Lucien was sent to trial by a military court of the resistance and executed for his crimes. Good riddance.
Mitigating Factors? Lucien gives money to his mother, but honestly? For me that's Lucien trying to look good; he never showed any real signs of loving her, and when she pleads for him to leave the Milice, Lucien rejects her, why? "I like it there", choosing the Nazis over his own mother. This analysis of his character says it all: "We begin to understand how his callousness works for him in his new job. He didn’t intend to blab about the schoolmaster; he was just surprised and pleased that he knew something the Nazis didn’t. But he’s indifferent when he witnesses the torture, and he shows no more reaction to killing people himself than to shooting a rabbit for dinner or a bird for fun. After the Maquis have raided the hotel, reprisals are ordered, and Lucien is sent, with an SS man, to arrest France and her grandmother. Lucien has no feelings one way or the other about hauling them in—so little sentiment that he reclaims a gold watch he looted earlier and gave to Mr. Horn in a buttering-up gesture. The German takes it away from him, however, and Lucien, piqued, shoots him. It is perfectly apparent that if the German had not pocketed the watch, which Lucien felt was properly his own, Lucien would have stood by as France was taken away. (He wanted his watch back because he didn’t see why it should be wasted.) Yet with the SS man dead, Lucien needs to get away, and he escapes, with France and her grandmother, to the countryside. When we see him in his natural environment, setting traps, killing game, making love to France, and once even lying flat on the ground and laughing like an innocent, confident boy, we know, with absolute conviction, that he has no sense of guilt whatever."
Heinous? Between helping the Nazis, treating everyone around him as an object, and raping his own girlfriend. I'd say he counts.
Conclusion?
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jul 6th 2019 at 10:00:02 AM

He kills, and impersonates H's mentor and taunts him about his fate when finally confronted. Also H's resulting recklessness left him hated by everyone except T. Also Vungus was good friends with H.
Edited by papyru30 on Jul 5th 2019 at 5:50:38 AM