During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Hecuba if the child-eating is explicit
Unrelated, but the writeup for Butch Cavendish lacks a period between "complaint" and "At." I also noticed Disney is emphasized, when Disney was not emphasized in the writeup for fellow Disney CM The Horned King.
- Complete Monster: Butch Cavendish is one of the darkest villains to ever appear in a Disney film. Rumored to be a Wendigo for his unusual habits, Butch shows why when after gunning down the hero, Reid's brother, Butch cuts out his heart and eats it. Butch uses fear to oppress any hint of rebellion and will kill at any hint of complaint At one point, he even kills a laborer for nothing more than saying the entrance of a cave he wanted entry to was blocked. Butch conspires to start a war with, and wipe out the Comanche people for the silver in the mines by leading attacks on innocent people in settlements, framing the Comanche. In the past, when the Comanche saved Butch's life, he repaid them by slaughtering them, earning Tonto's undying hatred. With his evil and his dark habits, it's easy to see why Tonto sees Butch as a flesh-eating monster of myth.
Yeah, she says she's eaten many before, that she prefers little boys, and that Jack was her first in a long time. I guess they don't explicitly show the child-eating (because children's film, I guess), so if that's potentially mitigating, I guess that makes sense.
A bit off topic, but the CM incarnations per character sandbox is looking great. I'm also amazed at just how many Joker incarnations count. He currently has 34. The only character who could ever possibly eclipse him one day is Satan, who currently has 31, soon to be 32. No other character even has 20.
jjj
Hecuba and everyone else I missed.
To anyone who knows about Persona 2, what do you guys think about Ginji as a candidate? A fairly minor villain, I though about him because he's a pedophile creep who ogles the performers under him, planned to absorb the life energy of thousands of innocent people, assist a terrorist in a bombing his own concert, and absorb the life energy of the two best friends of one of the main hero out of spite.
Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - GiselleI think Kaz has an interest E Ping him.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."As I mentioned some time ago, I have a few other bad guys from 666 Satan to propose. After Satan, Miko and Ikaros, now it's time to take a look at the two primary villains of an earlier arc, namely the one about the city of Entotsu. Let's start with Wise, the main antagonist of said arc.
666 Satan is a Shōnen manga written by Seishi Kishimoto.
The story takes place in a world vaguely similar to Earth, except that there are mysterious objects with special powers called O-Parts scattered across the globe. Usually, those objects can be found in some of the numerous ruins left by an ancient civilization from before mankind existed. The descendants of this now-extinct civilization are the only one capable of using the O-Parts' powers, and are called the O. P. T. (for "O-Part Tactitiens").
Oh, and there are also ten demons and ten angels (not all of whom are good guys) originating from the two Kabbalah who are roaming freely in the planet (some of which are sealed within humans).
The planet is ruled by the Stea government, which collects the most powerful O-Parts and is secretly trying to capture the ten angels in order to insert them back within their Kabbalah and obtain unimaginable powers.
Its primary enemy is a criminal organization known as Zenom, which traffics powerful O-Parts and is trying to capture the ten demons in order to insert them back within their Kabbalah and obtain unimaginable powers.
The manga follows the adventures of Jio Freed, a 13 years old OPT who wants to Take Over the World and is actually none other than the host of Satan himself, and his friend Ruby Crescent, a 15 years old treasure hunter in search of the Legendary O-Part. During their quests, they are eventually joined by new friends such as Ball and Kirin. Of course, they are also confronted to plenty of villains, whether they are evil humans, evil O.P.T.s, Zenom members, corrupt Stea agents, angels or demons.
Wise Yuri is an OPT working for the criminal organization Zenom. Despite his relatively low rank (he's just above Mook Lieutenant), he is quite famous for being an extremely dangerous and sadistic killer who slaughtered hundreds of people (we actually see a brief flashback of him standing Atop a Mountain of Corpses of dozens and dozens of his victims), including some fellow Zenom members whom he didn't like. He's even nicknamed the "Crimson Magician" due to his particularly bloody methods of killing (apparently, he loves to cover everything with blood during his murders).
Every time he kills someone, he adds a new piercing to his tongue... and during the events of the manga, his tongue is almost entirely covered with piercings (he also has a few on his face), which is something he seems very proud of.
Five years ago, a lithograph indicating that an immensely powerful O-Part called Mekisis could be hidden under the city of Entotsu was discovered. Wise was sent by his superiors to take care of this, so he allied himself with a corrupt member of the Stea government named Jagga and helped him to become the mayor of Entotsu City.
To do that, Wise and his subordinates from Zenom attacked the city several times, but each time they pretended to be defeated and to be forced to flee when Jagga and his men intervened. That way, the citizens of Entotsu became dependent on Jagga's "protection", allowing him to easily take possession of the city.
As the city's mayor, Jagga forced every citizen to work like slaves, including young children, to constantly dig underground in search of the O-Part. When some of them try to escape from the city, they are promptly executed, and when strangers come to the city, they are captured and forced to work with the others. Meanwhile, Wise and his henchmen continued to attack the city every now and then to keep up the masquerade.
Years later, Wise and his men attack the city once again, and Jagga sends his soldiers to "protect the citizens" as usual. Shortly after, Wise has a meeting with Jagga in the latter's mansion, during which Jagga gives him his pay of the week. Wise says it's a pleasure for him to spread the blood of the citizens of this city, and mocks them for their credulity.
Suddenly, they spot Jio and Ball, two 13 years old boys who are members of the city's resistance movement and got into the mansion to spy on them. Wise tries to kill both of them with sadistic glee, looking pretty eager to add two new piercings to his tongue, however Jio reveals he's also an OPT and has a duel with him.
Thanks to his superior experience, Wise easily takes the advantage during the fight but instead of simply killing his young opponent, he decides to take his time and tortures him little by little, treating him like his personal "toy". At one point, he steals Jio's precious O-Part and breaks it in front of him just for the pleasure of tormenting him. Unfortunately for him, Ball ends up helping a badly beaten Jio to flee through the roof while Wise is distracted, and the two kids eventually manage to escape from him, albeit not without a great deal of difficulties.
A few days later, Jagga and Wise learn that Mekisis has been found. As they are the only ones who can still pose problems, Jagga charges Wise to eliminate every members of the resistance, much to his delight.
Next time we see him, Wise and his henchmen are in a bar, where Wise killed the barman. Wise orders his men to scatter over the streets and kill anyone they think is even remotely suspect, as it could be someone from the resistance (or not, but they don't really care). When one of his men says something he doesn't like, Wise brutally beheads him without warning.
Afterward, Jagga takes control of Mekisis and decides to use it to ravage the city. On a roof, Wise watches Mekisis rising and destroying everything on its path, and looks rather pleased.
Soon after, Wise joins Jagga and betrays him, revealing that he manipulated him from the start and was always planning to sacrifice him to Mekisis. Then, he offers him to Mekisis to be consumed all the while cruelly mocking him, which causes the O-Part to become even more powerful and destructive. Wise subsequently take over Mekisis and declares that he is the real god, and also that the city no longer has any use for him so he's going to destroy it to test the powers of his new O-Part.
Wise starts using Mekisis to shoot lasers everywhere, however he spots Jio in possession of a new O-Part who wants a rematch. Glad to see his "toy" again, Wise shoots lasers at him, destroying a large part of the city in the process. Some of Jio's friends come to help him, but Wise tries to shoot at them as well, happy to have more people to kill. To his surprise, Jio manages to evade his lasers, therefore Wise decides to have Mekisis absorb him instead, and successfully kills him while laughing maniacally.
Unfortunately, this has the effect of turning Jio into Satan. Being the sworn enemy of the gods, Satan attacks Wise and Mekisis, and pretty much obliterates the O-Part (which of course upsets Wise quite a bit, as he was about to use its full power to kill everyone in the city). Jio then turns back into himself and runs into a pretty pissed off Wise, who swears that this time he's going to kill him for good.
The two OPT have a second duel, and just like during the previous one, Jio gets brutally beaten and harmed throughout the majority of it. However, this time he eventually manages to punch Wise on one occasion, causing him to become angrier than ever and to declare he's going to kill Jio in the most horrible and painful way possible.
Wise stops playing around and starts attacking his opponent even more violently than before, and Jio ends up impaled on a huge spike. Noticing that the kid is still alive, Wise grabs Jio's O-Part and tries to kill him with it, but Jio uses one of his satanic powers, the Mark of the Beast, to turn Wise's attack against him. This causes Wise to lose his left arm, which highly traumatizes him to see his own blood for the first time. Then, he is consumed by what's left of Mekisis, killing the Crimson Magician once and for all.
Just like with Jagga, absorbing Wise's evilness causes Mekisis to become even more powerful and destructive than before. Thankfully, Jio uses his last strengths to destroy the remaining parts of Mekisis with his O-Part, thus saving the city.
Nothing that even remotely looks like it.
Nope, can't think of anything.
Not even the shadow of one.
Among the major villains, Wise is easily one of the worst. Especially considering unlike many of the future villains, he's not a demon, or an angel, or whatever Miko was, or anything like that. He's just a normal OPT working for Zenom, and a rather low ranking one at that.
I mean, he's an Ax-Crazy mass murderer who enjoys nothing more than see the blood of his enemies, of innocent people, or even of his allies. His love of murders seems to disturb even Browny Schultz, another member of Zenom who's not exactly a saint himself. Before the manga even started, Wise already had the blood of hundreds of people on his hands, and he didn't stop there. As soon as he obtained a powerful O-Part, he tried to wipe out an entire city and kill all its inhabitants, and that was just a test! It's clear he was planning to do much more than that, he even said he was going to use Mekisis to Take Over the World. In addition, the fact that he considered that he was the true god, and treated Mekisis like his property, strongly implies that he planned to betray Zenom and conquer the world on his own for himself, no matter how much bloodbaths it would have caused (note that there was a large number of Zenom henchmen in the city he tried to destroy...).
Speaking of which, Wise might very well be the most evil out of all the members of Zenom we met (and we're talking about the most powerful criminal organization of the planet, no less). Many of the others are revealed to be more well-intentioned than they appear (Zeckt, Rock, Schultz...), or even outright make a Heel–Face Turn (Shuri, Spika, more or less Kujaku...). The only members without any redeeming qualities are minor characters who didn't do anywhere near as much as Wise in terms of crimes (Museshi, Elga, most Mooks...). While several of Zenom members have a pretty high body count as well, Wise has one of the biggest, and demonstrates a level of sadistic pleasure that exceeds any of them (which is not an easy feat, with guys such as Museshi or even Kujaku...). BTW, it's shown that even the other members of Zenom really dislike Wise.
The only (normal) OPT in the manga who might be even more of an Ax-Crazy psycho than Wise and possibly has a higher body count than him is Python Jack, but he was using a much more powerful O-Part than that of Wise (granted, Wise eventually obtained the even more powerful Mekisis, but he only had it for about an hour at the most, and ravaging the city was clearly just a start for him). Anyway, Wise was part of a large organization, unlike Python who was just a Serial Killer murdering anyone on his path, so of course Wise constantly had important things to take care of, and wasn't as free to act as Python was.
I give the Crimson Magician a

Okay, after a long time of looking, I think I MIGHT finally have a candidate.
What's the work? Jack to Mame no Ki, translated Jack and the Beanstalk, is a 1974 anime children's film based on the fairy tale of the same name. However, this one takes some... liberties... with the story, adding in a princess, magic mouse people, and an evil witch. One of those is our candidate.
Who's the villain? The main antagonist of this film is Madame Hecuba, also known as the Witch.
Who is Madame Hecuba? What does she do? All the dark witch Madame Hecuba ever wanted was to rule the Kingdom of the Clouds as an all-powerful, all-controlling queen. To accomplish this goal, she bears a Giant son named Tulip and tries to have him marry the princess, Margret. However, due to her son's ugliness, she decides she'll have to force a wedding to occur if she ever wants to rule as Queen. So she uses magic to murder the king and queen, turn all of the kingdom's people into helpless mice, and hypnotize Margret into believing Tulip is a handsome prince. Oh, and did I forget to mention? She's immortal, and the way she stays immortal? Eating human children and feeding on their youth.
The day before the wedding, the titular protagonist Jack gets ahold of magic beans, which grow into a beanstalk that takes him and his dog Crosby up to the Kingdom of the Clouds. A dazed and hypnotized Margret takes Jack to Hecuba, who lures him in with the offer of food. On their way to the dining hall, trapped spirits (which I think are that of the king and queen, they never really explain that one) warn Jack of Hecuba's evil, but Hecuba silences them. She then restrains Jack in a chair and force-feeds him a poisoned soup, which causes him to fall asleep and into her clutches, where she plans to use him as the main course for the wedding feast the next day. However, she is interrupted by Tulip, who she verbally abuses. When he finds that Jack is missing, she commands him to search the castle for him.
Jack makes his way to a treasure room, where Tulip enters. There it is shown that Tulip is... how shall we say... special, as he has been so broken by his mother's lifelong abuse that he has a toy version of her that he smashes. Hecuba, meanwhile, manipulates Margret some more, and re-applies the spell, and through an inner monologue gloats about how she will become the most feared and powerful queen in the world, and will reign for eternity.
Jack learns from a talking harp that Margret is entranced during the day, but is normal only when she is asleep. As Jack prepares to leave with a sack of gold, he comes across Margret, who pleads for help in her sleep, having nightmares about Hecuba. Tulip ends up finding Jack and chasing him away, but Jack later returns on the day of the wedding to help.
Hecuba sets up a wedding, bringing paper people to life to serve as the guests and priest. She forces Margret to attend, and commands her to proclaim her love for Tulip. In Hecuba's thought bubble, it shows her ruling on high, and transforming Margret and Tulip into mice themselves. However, before they are wed, Jack breaks in and breaks Margret's spell by kissing her. Hecuba sics Tulip on them, with him chasing them down and trying to kill them with a spear. He chases them to the ballroom where Hecuba is waiting. She uses dark magic to transport them to a flat platform over a void, and tries to tip Jack and Margret into an endless void. They are unintentionally saved when Tulip steps on the platform and weighs it down, but Hecuba commands that Tulip smash them. Tulip, however, finally fed up of his mother's abuse, betrays her and steps on her instead, killing her and releasing her dark spell on the land. Tulip tries to kill Jack again and chases him down the beanstalk, but Jack cuts it down as Tulip is descending it, causing him to fall to his death.
Heinous standard? The only other villain is Tulip, and he is shown to be a dimwitted lacky to Hecuba, as well as actually in love with Margret. Jack himself commits some petty theft, but that's to support his mother.
Mitigating factors? We don't actually see her kill the king and queen, as that was done offscreen. We also don't really see too much child-eating, as she only really talks about to herself while she is preparing to eat Jack, saying that it had been twenty years since she had last eaten, and it had been too long for her to go without devouring more youth.
Verdict? Normally she'd come across as generic, but the addition of her eating children and planning to betray her own son pushes her into a "
" territory for me.
Edited by SumDumNerd on Jul 3rd 2019 at 11:36:11 AM
Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here