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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#170179: Jun 29th 2019 at 11:52:25 AM

The same O-Parts Hunter that recently brought us Satan? He sets such a high standard.

Anyway, I've been putting these off long enough. First off, a tweaking of Earth-616 Apocalypse:

  • Apocalypse: An ancient Egyptian who gained his powers from Celestial technology, En Sabah Nur, better known as Apocalypse, is one of the oldest—and evilest—mutants in existence. Believing that the strong must dominate the weak, Apocalypse aims to test humanity. Those who survive the process will be allowed to live as his servants, those who fail, die. Apocalypse has a history of granting powers to other unscrupulous individuals, transforming Nathaniel Essex into the mad geneticist Mister Sinister in exchange for Sinister agreeing to unleash a plague that would exterminate most of humanity, and empowering terrorist leader Moses Magnum, in exchange for the latter winnowing out the strong from the weak. His other crimes include infecting the infant Cable with Techno-Organic Virus, as well as turning Cable's clone, Stryfe, into the monster he is today; trying to force humanity to reduce its own population by ninety percent or face the wrath of another meta-plague; and effectively killing Stryfe by bodyjacking him. He later conducts experiments on test subjects to find a new body, and, seeing himself as a god, eventually destroys a civilization. In Age of Apocalypse, he has devastated North America with nuclear weapons, reduced the human population by purges, and gave free reign to like-minded psychopaths Sinister, Holocaust, and Mikhail Rasputin, effectively destroying civilization. Believing wholeheartedly that those he considers weak must be slain, Apocalypse is well deserving of his name.

Now, for my own duo:

  • Askani World (Earth-4935) has En Sabah Nur and his equally evil daughter:
    • The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix, by Scott Lobdell et al.: Apocalypse is an incarnation of Earth-616 Apocalypse two thousand years in the future. His wickedness not dulled over two millennia, he has taken over much of North America and implemented his Social Darwinism beliefs. Perhaps his most vile crime was infecting an infant Nathan Summers, the future Cable, with a Techno-Organic virus two thousand years prior, just to have Nathan prove he was strong enough to eventually serve as Apocalypse's vessel, as the latter is burning through his bodies, and so has to take new ones more often. Even after finding out that Stryfe, a clone of Nathan, isn't a mutant, Apocalypse still tries to bodyjack the boy. Finally, Apocalypse is conducting research on a virus similar in composition to the Legacy Virus.
    • X-Men: Phoenix, by John Francis Moore et al. note : High Councilor/High Prelate Diamanda Nero oversees Apocalypse's empire, decades before the majority of the above story, while the latter constructs his newest armor to house his body. A psychotic sadist who is introduced fatally, and gleefully, torturing a victim for information, Nero has killed many mutants, at which point she absorbs their powers. At one point, she tests a plague on an enclave, resulting in over 2,700 deaths. Using this knowledge, she creates Plague, basically a zombie turned into a Walking Wasteland. Her other crimes include more brutal torture and having her forces brutally kill a group assisting those fighting Apocalypse's rule.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#170181: Jun 29th 2019 at 12:17:23 PM

[tup]Henry

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#170182: Jun 29th 2019 at 12:23:32 PM

[tup] to Sallinger and Henry, [tdown] to the Piper.

Not sure where to put Ultimate Mojo because he's in X-Men and Spider-Man.

  • Ultimate Mojo is a corrupt TV producer with a love for money and hatred for mutants. Creating "Krakoa Island," a television program where criminal mutants are hunted down and killed for sport, Mojo arranges for all sorts of mutants to be thrown onto the island, regardless of their innocence or guilt, dragging out their deaths for better ratings. Mojo hopes to spread Krakoa Island worldwide, and when the X-Men interfere with these plans, he captures and drives spikes through Angel's wings to torture him, and later tries to murder all of the X-Men while forcing Charles Xavier to watch, after which he plans to lobotomize him on live television.

  • Ultimate Spider Man: Sgt. Wadey Wilson, better known as Deadpool, is a mutant-hating supremacist who seeks nothing less than the genocide of all mutantkind. Taking a job on Krakoa Island simply for the chance to kill mutants over the weeks, Deadpool eventually captures the X-Men as well as Spider-Man on the flimsiest of charges and begins hunting them all down, extending the hunt just to torment his prey. Deadpool cares nothing for his fellow mutant hunters the Reavers, callously insulting and even murdering them if it suits his needs, and Deadpool reveals that he would prefer to systematically murder every mutant in the world in their sleep, but he is starring on Krakoa Island so as to inspire other countries to follow his lead and eventually murder mutants like the "animals" they are. A far cry from his comedic, antiheroic mainstream counterpart, this Deadpool was a hate-filled lunatic who massacred countless mutants and wanted to wipe out the whole race just out of bigotry.

  • Ultimate X Men:

    • Apocalypse is an ancient mutant entity that contacts Nathaniel "Sinister" Essex to be his herald and resurrect him. Orchestrating Sinister, Apocalypse has him murder 10 innocent mutants, leading to the deaths of several mutant children, and when Sinister seems to fail him, Apocalypse orders him to kill himself. Eventually resurrected by Sinister, Apocalypse lays waste to the city around him, killing many people in his path and taking control of the X-Men's bodies and forcing them to fight and kill each other. In the future where Apocalypse wins, he has wiped out most life on Earth, reducing the planet to a barren wasteland that he lords over. In his latest scheme to resurrect, Apocalypse has Sinister hunt down and capture Alex Summers, leading Sinister to wipe out an entire mental hospital in Apocalypse's name.

    • Nathaniel "Mr. Sinister" Essex is a former Oscorp scientist turned street thug who is contacted by Apocalypse, and decides to ally with the godly mutant for power and glory. Gleefully murdering 10 innocent mutants to resurrect Apocalypse, often specifically targeting children and females because he likes the "sounds they make when they bleed", Sinister surrenders himself to Apocalypse's essence, fully aware of the mass murder Apocalypse has planned. Though seemingly reforming after Apocalypse's defeat, Sinister was merely biding his time, as he soon after begins planning to revive Apocalypse once more, notably strolling through a mental hospital and killing every living person inside by rapidly decomposing their bodies.

  • Ultimate Iron Man: Loni Stane is the true villain behind Obadiah Stane and Dolores. A sociopathic woman who uses everyone around her as stepping stones to more power, Loni orchestrates the murder of her own husband Zebediah, having him vertically ripped in half slowly out of sadism, and frames her former husband Howard Stark for it, who she then tries to have poisoned. Making a move to become an arms dealer, Loni plans to blow up an entire city with a nuclear weapon, killing her own son Obadiah in the process to eliminate suspicion from herself, and executes the terrorist she hired to help with this, Dolores. Later leaving Obadiah to die from poison gas while mocking him, Loni executes the teenage girl Nifara as well as her own henchmen to eliminate witnesses of her crimes, and then plans to murder Tony Stark while forcing his father Howard to watch, with Loni taking despicable joy from the pain she causes the whole while.

Edited by AgeOfTropeEmpire on Jun 29th 2019 at 12:24:04 PM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#170183: Jun 29th 2019 at 12:47:38 PM

I think this is a good pic of Mr. Sinister. Problem is, I don't know where exactly it's from.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#170184: Jun 29th 2019 at 1:01:34 PM

Sure to Henry.

For the Ultimate tree, let's just go in alphabetical order after Reed, so:

  • Reed
  • FF (Thanos)
  • Mojo (since he's in both Spidey and X-Men)
  • Spidey (Deadpool)
  • X-Men (Apoc and Sinister)
  • Loni (since Iron Man's continuity is weird)

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#170185: Jun 29th 2019 at 1:02:54 PM

Are you going to add Donaldpool to Monster.Spider Man and apoclypse and sinsiter to Monster.X Men as well

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#170186: Jun 29th 2019 at 1:10:08 PM

Nah, I'm just gonna do what I did with the What If stuff: Link to the main Marvel page.

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#170187: Jun 29th 2019 at 1:11:31 PM

Tentative yes to Henry and no to Pied Piper but yes to everyone else.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#170188: Jun 29th 2019 at 1:11:33 PM

So how many entries were at for this week.

I think weve slowed down a bit for this week.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#170189: Jun 29th 2019 at 1:17:43 PM

I still need to do my write up for the Ice Vampire. I'll do it later today.

jjj
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#170190: Jun 29th 2019 at 1:29:04 PM

We actually got 51, plus the Ultimate tree which I may do separately.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#170191: Jun 29th 2019 at 1:31:30 PM

Weird.

I thought this week was slower then normal.

Maybe 50 is now just the normal amount per week.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#170192: Jun 29th 2019 at 1:32:14 PM

That tree sounds good. I will be writing up Herr Kleiser soon as well, but I'm heading out for the day and will need to write his later.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#170193: Jun 29th 2019 at 1:38:51 PM

Considering that, together with Herr Kleiser, Ultimate Marvel will have 8 Monsters, does Ultimate Marvel need to be a subpage?

If not, can I'm propose that maybe we folder Marvel and DC pages the same way Star Wars and A Song of Ice and Fire pages foldered, because otherwise they might get too bloated?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#170194: Jun 29th 2019 at 1:39:39 PM

[up][up] That's fine. I won't be doing the tree until early next week anyway.

[up][up][up] Possibly, but keep in mind, of the 51, like 1/3 are duplicate entries (the SCP tree; Raven Lord going twice; the Goosebumps/Joker & Riddler twice since they're on 2 pages; etc.), rewrites (Apocalypse, Johan, Tramell, etc.), or something similar. Hell, even of the new entries, Ares was ready last week (I just wanted to wait until Medusa got written up), while Apocalypse and Diamanda were approved some time ago.

[up] Nah, we'll just split it into a separate group like What If. Folderizing them (and DC) may be a good idea though.

On that note, what should be folderized for DC?

  • Pre-Crisis: 5 entries (unsure)
  • Crisis: 1 (not needed)
  • Post-Crisis: a LOT (needed)
  • New 52: Numerous (needed)
  • Rebirth: 2 (not needed)
  • Elseworlds: 6 (Unsure)
  • Alternate Continuities: Numerous (needed)
  • Wildstorm: 5 entries (unsure)

So, Post-Crisis, New 52, Alternate Continuities in folders; Crisis and Rebirth not in folders; Pre-Crisis, Elseworlds, Wildstorm unsure (though I'm leaning yes; if Pre and Wildstorm are a yes, Elseworlds is DEFINITELY a yes).

Edited by ACW on Jun 29th 2019 at 4:48:05 AM

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#170195: Jun 29th 2019 at 2:00:25 PM

I say keep the Shakespeare tree.

He's a special exception.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#170196: Jun 29th 2019 at 2:05:58 PM

Thanks to 43 for this:

  • Basic Instinct & Basic Instinct 2: Catherine Tramell derives joy only from death-defying gambits, in which she manipulates and leads others to their deaths. Seducing her victims into falling in love with her, Catherine kills them when she grows bored and publishes novels inspired by her crimes, as a show of arrogance in what she can get away with. With a slew of bodies behind her, including her own parents, Catherine manipulates her girlfriend into getting herself killed in a jealous attack on Catherine's other lover, Nick Curran, before setting up her own acquaintance to be blamed for Catherine's murders and get killed by Nick. Given a court-ordered psychologist, Dr. Michael Glass, years later, Catherine mentally torments him and personally kills Glass's wife, manipulating Glass into killing a rival psychologist and framing him for both crimes, happily admitting to Glass that she loves and indulges in her own evil nature.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#170197: Jun 29th 2019 at 2:09:05 PM

Here's this; I'll request the folderizing of DC tomorrow; I'll just leave Rebirth and the Crisis not in folders unless suggested otherwise.

  • The Golden Age: The Big Bad Duumvirate, Adolf Hitler and the Ultra-Humanite, aim to Take Over the World. During World War II, the Ultra-Humanite performed inhumane experiments on German prisoners to perfect his process to take over bodies, killing all the scientists who helped him, before placing his mind inside superhero Tex Thompson. Becoming an American senator, the Ultra-Humanite places Hitler's brain inside another superhero, Dynaman, and the duo begin plotting to take over America and launch a war on all Communist countries. When exposed at a press conference, Hitler attacks, killing many civilians in his rampage, while ranting he will use his newfound power to conquer the planet with force.

Mimic45 Since: Feb, 2017
#170198: Jun 29th 2019 at 2:17:06 PM

I wrote an entry for "Sarah" (funny, I just realized he's my first CM to be a normal human, rather than a demon, an alien, or both...), but I'm not sure I made a really good job. I guess it's a bit too long, especially compared to the entries of the other CM from the same franchise:

  • The unnamed leader of the terrorist group known as The Black Army is one of the most dangerous villains ever faced by Ryo Saeba. Under his command, the Black Army committed acts of terrorism in several countries, and every time he hypnotized an innocent woman to make her believe she was the leader of the group and used her to do the dirty works in his place. After obtaining a nuke, the leader charges his henchmen to install it in the center of Tokyo, and sends a ransom of one hundred billion yen to the Japanese government, threatening to blow up the whole city if they don't pay within 24 hours. When the young Rumi sees them, the Black Army makes several attempts on her life, but she's saved by Ryo Saeba. The Black Army leader decides to kidnap and hypnotize Ryo's partner Kaori, and uses her to try to kill both Rumi and Ryo, and also to lead his henchmen from a distance. Once the police find the nuke's location, they send cars to evacuate the area and some agents to stop the terrorists, however the Black Army massacre all of them. Later, the leader orders Kaori to shoot Ryo, and when the police find his position and come to arrest him, he asks her to activate the nuke and destroy Tokyo immediately out of spite.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#170199: Jun 29th 2019 at 2:17:43 PM

I found Familial Body Snatcher. I swear we would have examples that would fit this so well.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance

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