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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#169926: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:37:25 PM

i don't quite think we are, or should discuss Fairly Odd Parents seriously.

The NA list is not really a major pressing topic for discussion, in my eyes. This is taking up too much real estate for the thread, my friends.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#169927: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:37:56 PM

I'm actually kind of confused about what exactly is trying to be accomplished here.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#169928: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:39:27 PM

[up] [up] [up] there's No major villains to Compare to in those stories though, the fact they don't meet baseline can just be assumed.

And yeah I think this has gotten a bit out of hand. The Fairly odd parents rewrite looks okay, and aside from that I think we can move on from this.

Edited by Kylotrope on Jun 27th 2019 at 7:40:03 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
FoxyGrandpa12 Reze x Denji from New Jersey or New York (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Reze x Denji
#169929: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:39:30 PM

@Scraggle Probably? Still, my final suggestion is: same as Scraggle except change "film" to "films" in Spongebob. BTW Why is Gavin Archer struck out?

@Lightysnake A good idea would be to move discussion on the Administrivia page (and by extension the NA list) on a separate thread. We're here to discuss candidates, not complain about the Administrivia page over trivial points.

"Thing is, I believe that a single good movie will change your entire life." — Makima | aka Fox | he/she/they
Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#169930: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:39:56 PM

I think that's another factor with Katz: he's consistently COMPETENT and threatening.

Which I think is required a bit for a show with negative continuity.

Edited by Godzillawolf on Jun 27th 2019 at 7:41:08 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#169931: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:40:04 PM

What did I just come back to? I agree with Scraggle on the NA list.

Okay. Anyone got an EP?

Edited by Bullman on Jun 27th 2019 at 9:45:31 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#169932: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:40:58 PM

Seriously... can we get off this? This has been a perennial problem: I'm worried folks will back off now that it's been asked... only to jump back on this a few months later to take up another few pages about minor details they want added/deleted/altered.

Edited by 43110 on Jun 27th 2019 at 10:43:03 AM

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#169933: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:42:04 PM

Agreed with Scraggle, though changing from "film" to "films" for the Spongebob entry is harmless enough (although not that big an issue since, unlike Dennis or Plankton from the first movie, Burger Beard was never brought up on the thread from what I recall)

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jun 27th 2019 at 10:44:06 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#169934: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:42:20 PM

@Foxy: Probably the most obvious non-keeper still on the list.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#169935: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:42:44 PM

Yeah... At the end of the day, it is a small detail.

That said, I do think the entry for Fairly Odd-Parents needs to be reworded to something less condescending.

Now can we get back to business?

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jun 27th 2019 at 10:43:25 AM

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#169936: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:42:52 PM

This conversation is going nowhere. End it now.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#169937: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:44:02 PM

I agree. Anyone have an effortpost?

FoxyGrandpa12 Reze x Denji from New Jersey or New York (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Reze x Denji
#169938: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:45:29 PM

@Tyk 5919: Or take it to a different thread.

Change this to acknowledge the Avatar franchise (not just Korra). Oh and add the Earth Queen and Zhao.

And add "can Hate Sink be a CM?" to the CM FAQ. Because Earth Queen is listed as a Hate Sink, look it up.

Edit: Why do I keep being Ninja'd every time?

Edit 2: @Awesomekid 42 Couldn't find Burgerbeard. Though the real question is: does anyone know why he doesn't count?

Edited by FoxyGrandpa12 on Jun 27th 2019 at 10:47:08 AM

"Thing is, I believe that a single good movie will change your entire life." — Makima | aka Fox | he/she/they
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#169939: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:46:57 PM

[up][up] Well one I would've loved to discuss was actually a one-eyed bat demon that was a prolific Serial Rapist, but the problem was there's no set story that he appears in.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#169940: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:49:39 PM

This looks like it's still going on...

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#169941: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:49:57 PM

[up][up][up]Again. Let, this, go.

Neither of those charachters have been Brougt up nearly enough times to warrant being on there.

Edited by Kylotrope on Jun 27th 2019 at 7:50:14 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#169942: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:49:59 PM

Foxy, I don't think you understand the purpose of the never again list. The reason people like Zhao and Burgerbeard aren't listed despite being non-qualifiers is because they weren't brought up often. Characters get listed on Never Again if they get brought up a ton of the time with the results being the same. Not just for any charachter who doesn't count or has been turned down once or twice.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#169943: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:50:47 PM

You know Foxy how about you just create a new forum discussing what should be on the NVA page. It what we did just with all other previous topics such as the one discussed CM quotes

Edited by G-Editor on Jun 27th 2019 at 4:52:18 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#169944: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:51:31 PM

@Austin You talking about the popobawa?

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Jun 27th 2019 at 7:51:59 AM

nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#169945: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:52:25 PM

Move on from the Never Again list.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#169946: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:53:39 PM

[up][up]Yeah, I was thinking on that one. Looking into it, he's definitely the worst of the demons mentioned in Eastern African culture, but aside from a few accounts of it hypnotizing its victims, there doesn't seem to be much to really go off of.

Edited by AustinDR on Jun 27th 2019 at 7:54:33 AM

FoxyGrandpa12 Reze x Denji from New Jersey or New York (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Reze x Denji
#169947: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:53:45 PM

@G-Editor Great idea! I'll do that as soon as my charge my laptop.

BTW, I had more to say, but then I just got ninja'd by a mod.

Edited by FoxyGrandpa12 on Jun 27th 2019 at 10:54:56 AM

"Thing is, I believe that a single good movie will change your entire life." — Makima | aka Fox | he/she/they
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#169948: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:54:33 PM

EDIT: Never mind. I may have an EP as a tribute to the dearly departed soon

Edited by Lightysnake on Jun 27th 2019 at 7:54:56 AM

FoxyGrandpa12 Reze x Denji from New Jersey or New York (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Do you like me? (Yes ⎕ Definitely ⎕ Absolutely!!! ⎕)
Reze x Denji
#169949: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:55:21 PM

EDIT: Again, ninja'd.

Now what were we talking about today?

Edited by FoxyGrandpa12 on Jun 27th 2019 at 10:56:14 AM

"Thing is, I believe that a single good movie will change your entire life." — Makima | aka Fox | he/she/they
Draxterrus An Eldritch Troper Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
An Eldritch Troper
#169950: Jun 27th 2019 at 7:56:07 PM

Breaking the debate on the Never Again List with another unapproved edit, this time from Ninja Gaiden:

The following entries were approved, but were changed to these without permission:

  • In the Original Video Animation based on the original NES trilogy, Professor Bucky-Wise is a seemingly Nice Guy who's really the hidden Big Bad pulling the strings: he recorded a power surge when Ryu defeats a powerful demon, managing to capture some of its power. He forces his colleague Ned Friedman to help him perform bizarre experiments by kidnapping Friedman's daughter Katherine, and uses the demon's power to create an army of genetically altered creatures. Bucky-Wise is also experimenting on humans, as Ryu and his friends discover one of his labs has babies jars. Bucky-Wise has his monsters attack Ryu and, when they fail to kill him, he kidnaps Irene; Ryu, however, goes to Friedman's corporation, it's the latter's doing. When confronted, Ned proclaims his innocence, but Bucky-Wise kills him, stating he is no longer useful, while telling Ryu he plans to release the same demon he defeated earlier upon the world,not caring this entity has the power to destroy humanity. Ryu kills Bucky-Wise and frees Katherine, but the Mad Scientist has the last laugh by transferring some of the demon's power into her, making her a vessel for the demon.
  • The Big Bad of the modern Ninja Gaiden stands out as a truly horrible individual: Murai was once part of the Hayabusa Ninja Clan, but went rogue to form his own clan and began plotting their demise. Despite stating a stance of neutrality from the Dragon Lineage's affairs, Murai uses his position and knowledge to sell them out to the Holy Vigoor Emperor, under the guise of the Dark Disciple, while luring away his nephew Ryu during the scheduled attack by the Emperor's minions. With the Hayabusa Clan nearly decimated, the Dark Dragon Blade stolen by the Greater Fiend Doku, and knowing of Ryu's vengeful personality, Murai suggests he goes after the Holy Vigoor Emperor to take Revenge. However, this is All According to Plan as Ryu's assault on the Emperor's forces increases the power to the Dark Dragon Blade. Alongside his servant Gamov keeping an eye on Ryu's progress, Murai patiently waits until the Holy Vigoor Emperor is destroyed by Ryu, then reveals himself as the true mastermind behind all events and takes the empowered Dark Dragon Blade for himself. With the intent of controlling the world with the evil blade, the manipulative and traitorous Murai will betray and slaughter anyone for a grasp at power, including Gamov.
  • In Ninja Gaiden III, Clifford "Cliff" Higgins seems like a helpful, yet quirky scientist working for the Japanese Self-Defense Force, but is actually working for the Lords of Alchemy, who desires humanity's destruction by replacing them with new "perfect" god-like beings. When Cliff's brother Theodore opposed the Evil Plan by their grandfather Ashtear Higgins, Cliff had him and his wife Saya killed in an "accident", then resurrects Theodore as the Brainwashed Regent of the Mask, sending him out to terrorize other nations and their respective governments, including the murder of the British Prime Minister. Cliff's machinations come to a head when he uses LOA's technology and Ryu's Dragon Sword to turn his niece Canna into the "Goddess" as it rampages through Tokyo, and will eventually destroy the human race. In a final confrontation with Ryu, Cliff admits he did such thins because he was jealous of his seemingly perfect brother and wanted to step out from under his shadow in any way that he could.

The person who made these edits is advent_child

Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.

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