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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#169851: Jun 27th 2019 at 2:34:54 PM

[tup] to Mason, Dark gaia, and Beruga

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Mimic45 Since: Feb, 2017
#169852: Jun 27th 2019 at 2:41:01 PM

[tup] to Surtr. How many versions of him count now? (the others I'm aware of are those from The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes and Extreme Ghostbusters)



[up][up][up][up] (BTW, are the Thor: Ragnarok references really necessary? Personally, I'm still trying to convince myself this movie was nothing but a horrible nightmare, since it should be humanly impossible to make something so insultingly awful. I may lose all my faith in humanity without this...)

Edited by Mimic45 on Jun 27th 2019 at 11:43:34 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#169853: Jun 27th 2019 at 2:46:04 PM

A MILLION times [tup] to Surtur. And sure to the others.

[up] Alot of people like the movie. No need to make people pretend it dosent exist Casue you don't

Things are really about to get Fun around here
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#169854: Jun 27th 2019 at 2:46:43 PM

The other two Thor movies were worse.

I guess I should probably add Simpsons to the Family Guy group.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#169855: Jun 27th 2019 at 2:48:13 PM

The Simpsons came up that much? Forgive me if I'm wrong or misremembering, but I don't see why list the show when the former had already been brought up constantly.

[down] If you mean Doug Walker, I do not take him seriously, especially after the events of that "Channel Not So Awesome" doc.

Edited by AustinDR on Jun 27th 2019 at 3:04:37 AM

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#169856: Jun 27th 2019 at 2:55:13 PM

Simpsons ain't needed.

Honestly I'm more a "less is more" guy when the NA list is concerned.

Don't like Thorgnarok references, eh? Another day, another Doug.

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#169857: Jun 27th 2019 at 2:56:41 PM

Lemme throw in my [tup] to Surtr.

Well, he tried to start a revolution against Thor: Ragnarok, but he didn't put out enough pamphlets.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#169858: Jun 27th 2019 at 3:00:42 PM

[tup]Surtyr.

Adding Netflix's Message from the King to my to do list.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#169859: Jun 27th 2019 at 3:01:05 PM

Yea on the Terranigma candidates... Lets just say that game, along with Lady Death, has a bit of a special connection for me due to one person.

Also, having talked with Jackie, I wouldnt mind taking Illusions of Gaia... Wanted to have more RPG Keepers tbh

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#169860: Jun 27th 2019 at 3:03:29 PM

I'll submit tomorrow morning, but here's the section (this combines resolved discussions and Never-Again):

Resolved Items

Please do not bring up characters that have already been discussed. It wastes our time. Any discussion that has been concluded is permanently shelved unless:

  • A new work in the same continuity is released featuring said character (alternate continuities don't count as they are treated as separate characters. This also means that if the discussion on Character from Universe A is closed, it doesn't apply to the same character in universe B, C or D).
  • The person bringing up the discussion again proves that there was evidence that was not brought up in the discussion before. If people don't use the Search Function to see if it was brought up they get a warning to start with, repeated offenses result in suspension.
  • The character reappears.

This rule especially applies to the following list, which will be edited as needed and may include characters judged to be a CM or not to be a CM.

    Expand 

Special Cases

Definitely a CM

  • Berserk: Griffith/Femto (He was selfish even before getting tortured, none of his crimes are treated as justified by said torture, and he has shown no indication that he can be redeemed, even himself admitting he feels no regret for anything. Any other interpretation relies on Alternative Character Interpretation, which isn't relevant to being a Complete Monster.)
  • Fullmetal Alchemist: Shou Tucker (Passes the heinous standard easily as, despite having fewer resources than other villains, he subjected his 4 year old daughter and wife to a Fate Worse than Death, an action which was treated in-universe with horror.)
  • Infinite Crisis: Superboy-Prime (As it stands now, he has been definitively shown as a CM.)
  • Harry Potter: Bellatrix (Her relationship with Voldemort isn't love, thus not disqualified. She doesn't love Voldemort himself, she views him as the embodiment of her own Fantastic Racism).
  • Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater: Volgin (His "love" for Raikov is nothing but possessive desire, and does not disqualify him.)
  • Naruto: Hidan (Makes the most of his relatively limited resources; notably sadistic; Naruto as a whole doesn't have such a high standard to prevent Hidan from counting.)
  • Toy Story 3: Lots-o'-Huggin' Bear (Lotso is proven to be a Manipulative Bastard and his Freudian Excuse does not justify his crimes during the movie. Also, Woody states that his former owner didn't abandon Lotso so much as Lotso abandoning her.)

Definitely not a CM

Edited by ACW on Jun 27th 2019 at 2:55:37 PM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#169861: Jun 27th 2019 at 3:10:08 PM

Hey with Ghestis, I noticed some points earlier, Namely in the discussion about Rhea From Supergirl some people Thogut that he wasn't heinous enough because of more sympathetic villains out Heinousnessing him as He just wanted to Rule the Pokemon. When in truth the reason is He dosent meet Baseline and the action that COULD Place him above baseline relied on Fridge Horror. Perhaps change the line there too "Fails Basline Heinousness" or "Relies Too Much on Fridge Horror".

Edited by Kylotrope on Jun 27th 2019 at 3:12:18 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
#169863: Jun 27th 2019 at 3:12:01 PM

[tup]Raidou, Manson, Dark Gaia, Beruga

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#169864: Jun 27th 2019 at 3:15:16 PM

[up][up][up] Relies too much on Fridge Horror to pass the baseline heinous standard?

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#169865: Jun 27th 2019 at 3:16:07 PM

[tup] Terranigma duo.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#169866: Jun 27th 2019 at 3:17:13 PM

[up] [up] that works

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#169867: Jun 27th 2019 at 3:21:06 PM

Can we not make a fuss about changing Ghetsis' entry?

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#169868: Jun 27th 2019 at 3:23:49 PM

A fuss? I just asked ACW about it and he did it. I'm not sure what the issue is.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#169870: Jun 27th 2019 at 3:29:58 PM

Uh... Sorry for repeatedly bringing this up, but the Malbert discussion is still unresolved. The[tup] are in the lead, but it's short one for a decisive 5 vote difference.

jjj
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#169871: Jun 27th 2019 at 3:31:17 PM

[tup] Dr. Beruga

[tup] Dark Gaia

[tup]Charles Manson. So, we finally got a "average" Serial Killer in AH.com.

Watch me destroying my country
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#169873: Jun 27th 2019 at 3:35:27 PM

I'm abstaining, though add Jay Leno to the list of those I never thought would play a possible CM.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#169874: Jun 27th 2019 at 3:46:43 PM

Would it be appropriate to draft an entry for Manson at this point?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#169875: Jun 27th 2019 at 3:58:05 PM

I'd say yes. I don't think he has any no votes.


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