During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to Surtr. How many versions of him count now? (the others I'm aware of are those from The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes and Extreme Ghostbusters)
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(BTW, are the Thor: Ragnarok references really necessary? Personally, I'm still trying to convince myself this movie was nothing but a horrible nightmare, since it should be humanly impossible to make something so insultingly awful. I may lose all my faith in humanity without this...)
Edited by Mimic45 on Jun 27th 2019 at 11:43:34 AM
The Simpsons came up that much? Forgive me if I'm wrong or misremembering, but I don't see why list the show when the former had already been brought up constantly.
If you mean Doug Walker, I do not take him seriously, especially after the events of that "Channel Not So Awesome" doc.
Edited by AustinDR on Jun 27th 2019 at 3:04:37 AM
Yea on the Terranigma candidates... Lets just say that game, along with Lady Death, has a bit of a special connection for me due to one person.
Also, having talked with Jackie, I wouldnt mind taking Illusions of Gaia... Wanted to have more RPG Keepers tbh
I'll submit tomorrow morning, but here's the section (this combines resolved discussions and Never-Again):
Resolved Items
Please do not bring up characters that have already been discussed. It wastes our time. Any discussion that has been concluded is permanently shelved unless:
- A new work in the same continuity is released featuring said character (alternate continuities don't count as they are treated as separate characters. This also means that if the discussion on Character from Universe A is closed, it doesn't apply to the same character in universe B, C or D).
- The person bringing up the discussion again proves that there was evidence that was not brought up in the discussion before. If people don't use the Search Function to see if it was brought up they get a warning to start with, repeated offenses result in suspension.
- The character reappears.
This rule especially applies to the following list, which will be edited as needed and may include characters judged to be a CM or not to be a CM.
Special Cases
- The Joker: His portrayal is a case of Depending on the Writer. In some incarnations, he's a Complete Monster and in others not. We've discussed this extensively already.
Definitely a CM
- Berserk: Griffith/Femto (He was selfish even before getting tortured, none of his crimes are treated as justified by said torture, and he has shown no indication that he can be redeemed, even himself admitting he feels no regret for anything. Any other interpretation relies on Alternative Character Interpretation, which isn't relevant to being a Complete Monster.)
- Fullmetal Alchemist: Shou Tucker (Passes the heinous standard easily as, despite having fewer resources than other villains, he subjected his 4 year old daughter and wife to a Fate Worse than Death, an action which was treated in-universe with horror.)
- Infinite Crisis: Superboy-Prime (As it stands now, he has been definitively shown as a CM.)
- Harry Potter: Bellatrix (Her relationship with Voldemort isn't love, thus not disqualified. She doesn't love Voldemort himself, she views him as the embodiment of her own Fantastic Racism).
- Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater: Volgin (His "love" for Raikov is nothing but possessive desire, and does not disqualify him.)
- Naruto: Hidan (Makes the most of his relatively limited resources; notably sadistic; Naruto as a whole doesn't have such a high standard to prevent Hidan from counting.)
- Toy Story 3: Lots-o'-Huggin' Bear (Lotso is proven to be a Manipulative Bastard and his Freudian Excuse does not justify his crimes during the movie. Also, Woody states that his former owner didn't abandon Lotso so much as Lotso abandoning her.)
Definitely not a CM
- The Bible: Satan (Offscreen Villainy. There's also a valid argument that he's Made of Evil and thus fails the moral agency test.)
- A Bug's Life: Hopper (Disqualified for redeeming feature: making a promise to his mother on her death bed and actually keeping it.)
- Family Guy & South Park: Most evil actions Played for Laughs, and the ones that aren't fail the heinousness standard.
- Jurassic Park series: No human (including Eli Mills and Ken Wheatley) exceeds the baseline heinous standard, while no dinosaur (including the Indominus rex) has sapience.
- Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker: Hot Coldman (Disqualified for being a Well-Intentioned Extremist and for failing the truly heinous standard compared to Volgin.)
- Pokémon Black and White: Ghetsis (Relies too much on Fridge Horror to pass the heinous standard enough to be a CM, especially for the game series.)
- Samurai Jack: Aku (Even disregarding the fact that he's not always taken seriously by the narrative, he is Made of Evil.)
- The Nightmare Before Christmas: Oogie Boogie (Fails the baseline heinous standard, even when taking into consideration both video games.)
- Wreck It Ralph: Turbo (Insufficiently heinous.)
Edited by ACW on Jun 27th 2019 at 2:55:37 PM
Hey with Ghestis, I noticed some points earlier, Namely in the discussion about Rhea From Supergirl some people Thogut that he wasn't heinous enough because of more sympathetic villains out Heinousnessing him as He just wanted to Rule the Pokemon. When in truth the reason is He dosent meet Baseline and the action that COULD Place him above baseline relied on Fridge Horror. Perhaps change the line there too "Fails Basline Heinousness" or "Relies Too Much on Fridge Horror".
Edited by Kylotrope on Jun 27th 2019 at 3:12:18 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here![]()
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Relies too much on Fridge Horror to pass the baseline heinous standard?
Dr. Beruga
Dark Gaia
Charles Manson. So, we finally got a "average" Serial Killer in AH.com.
I'm abstaining, though add Jay Leno to the list of those I never thought would play a possible CM.

to Mason, Dark gaia, and Beruga
HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA