Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

For those reading the recent Thor comics, I'd say keep on the lookout for Malekith the Accursed in case needs an addition to his entry. He is currently committing genocide on his fellow dark elves as an Ax-Crazy psycho throughout the nine realms, thinking that the elves must be punished for changing their ways ever since his rule.

Logically? Almost assuredly. However, he never said anything to indicate he believed that... he seemed to think that since mutants were "children of the atom" they'd get stronger from the fallout or something.

edited 21st Sep '13 9:28:41 AM by Larkmarn

Okay, I've still got some questions regarding Count Orlok. Could any of his deeds be considered pragmatic?

I can't remember if there's any indication whether or not he has to survive on blood, but if that were the case, would it be considered pragmatic for him to spread to plague in order to have a meal without anyone suspecting him?

Nevertheless if he does end up staying, the entry should mention that he's from Nosferatu.

Oh, and people, PLEASE tell me when you do the rewrites that you're also adding them to the work's YMMV?
EDIT: From the Tales Series

• Tales of Symphonia Cut Vharley?
• Tales of Rebirth: Just keep Zilva? She's the only one on Tales Series.
• Tales of Legendia: Cut Solon?

EDIT 2: Alright, I tweaked the Elder God's entry a bit and added him. I requested Victor Branco from Max Payne 3 be added; he seems to count. Yikes, as if Malekith didn't already count.

edited 21st Sep '13 10:23:09 AM by ACW

Yes, the Elder God is the biggest monster of the Legacy Of Kain series. And good work for Victor Branco. We qualified him long ago

Secondly, yep, Malekith has just returned in the new Thor series, and he's as bad as ever. He's wiping out all of his own people who won't kowtow to his rule, and the issue ends with him deciding to begin 'the wild hunt' through the nine realms. After this arc, we may have to add more to his entry.

As for Orlok...Orlok deliberately chooses to leave Transylvania and go to Wisborg, spreading the plague throughout Europe. Again: if Dracula qualifies, what reason is there for Orlok not to? He may need blood to survive, but does that mean he has to kill tons of innocent people with a plague to do it? He's not sitting in a corner crying over being a monster, he's actively relishing in being one.

Also, Larkman:

Given that Swiss Banker had helped Nazi War Criminals escape punishment and flee to South America, that's way less of a bad moment for Magneto and more a Kick The Son Of A Bitch for him.

edited 21st Sep '13 10:37:40 AM by Lightysnake

I found a couple examples on the Commando YMMV page.

• Complete Monster: Arius and Bennett both qualify.
  • Arius was a ruthless dictator who ordered out many executions for petty reasons during his time as leader of Val Verde. After Matrix stopped him, and replaced him with a much better leader, Arius decided to get revenge on Matrix and retake his position. He had his men kill all of the living members of Matrix's old unit, and had his daughter Jenny kidnapped. Arius ordered Matrix to kill the current leader so he could retake his position or he would have Bennett kill Jenny. He says that letting Bennett slit her throat would be "like cutting butter". We also learn that he was going to kill Jenny anyway.
  • Bennett was a former member of Matrix's unit, who was kicked out because he "liked killing a little too much". After he was kicked out, he joined up with Arius to get revenge on Matrix. He had no problems with Arius killing his former comrades (the members of his old unit), and was willing to go along with his plan despite knowing full well just how bad a ruler Arius was,. how much better the new leader was, and that Arius was going to kill Jenny anyway. He holds a kinife to Jenny's throat durring Arius's "talk" with Matrix and agrees with the "cutting butter" part. When Arius dies, he tries to kill Jenny and Matrix himself

Yes, most Magneto supposedly acts of personal cruelty were against pretty horrible people, I don't think anyone is going to say Magneto was heinous for killing those two Nazi war criminals.

Meanwhile Shaw killed a helpless woman who was an inmate in a Nazi death camp in front of her son's eyes. Clearly Shaw's personal acts of cruelty, are far, far greater then anything Magneto has done in terms of personal acts. That's what makes Shaw stand out as a Complete Monster, not the grand scale evil genocidal plots, but the smaller, cruel actions he also takes. Shaw commits evil acts both great and small, all his actions put together makes him a complete monster and make him stand out in terms of evil.

Don't forget Darwin, either. After all his talk about 'We don't hurt our own kind', he kills him without any hesitation, even Darwin was zero threat to him.

As for the Commando examples...tough. Most of that is based on their demeanor and their offscreen villainy, but the whole "trying to murder a little girl" thing...

With his best friend's energy, no less.

... sorry I'm hung up on that, but it's a DICK move.

To be entirely fair, he didn't really have any other way to kill Darwin there

Other than not killing the guy who's no threat.

Well, if nobody minds, I'll swap out Shaw at least.

Now that the line of argument has shifted towards qualifying Shaw rather than reverse disqualification, the arguments presented supporting him have convinced me that he outshines Erik both in personal and grand scale crimes. Support a swap.

As Larkmarn noted, I do note an odd tendency to underreport Magneto's crimes for whatever reason, mostly from the chronologically later films. He gets worse over time in a He Who Fights Monsters kind of way.

So far, we have three votes for adding Koichi Shido (first post here), and haven't discussed him in a while since. How many more votes should we get before he's finally added?

I'm cutting the Tales Examples?

EDIT: Lighty, I see you made several requests such as for Cal Leandros. I don't see them on the YMMV page. I feel like I'm the only one who cares about that

edited 21st Sep '13 12:59:26 PM by ACW

So I've found a few examples from Sly Cooper. They were brought up before but nothing really came of them. These two are on the Sly Cooper and the Thievius Raccoonus:

Despite being Affably Evil, Sir Raleigh can be considered this. The rest of the Fiendish Five (minus Clockwerk) all have valid Freudian Excuses: Muggshot was bullied as a kid; Mz. Ruby was ostracized from other kids because of her powers; and the Panda King had his dreams shattered by Jerk Ass nobles, and later was even more humanized when General Tsao tried to kidnap his daughter and force her to marry him. Sir Raleigh's excuse? He was bored.

Clockwerk lead the attack on the Cooper home and killed Sly's dad. On top of that, he spent thousands of years stalking the cooper family around the wold, and his plan was to wipe them all out. He has so much hatred inside of him, that it kept him alive for thousands of years. Unlike most other villains, he has no excuse for his actons and is played completely seriously.

And this is from Sly 2: Band of Thieves:

Complete Monster: Neyla sells out the Cooper Gang and Carmelita to Interpol, leaving them at the mercy of the Contessa, for starters. After that betrayal, not a single moment of her screen time is spent making her sympathetic or likable.

Now Clockwerk was discussed and(IIRC) voted to be cut for Offscreen Villainy so he can be cut, but the other two weren't discussed much. Raleigh gets a definite cut vote from me because he's pretty standard and the only thing that makes him worse than the others is lacking a Freudian Excuse. I would also vote to cut Neyla because her end goal is basically the same as the other villains and the entry is terribly written anyway.

edited 21st Sep '13 1:05:33 PM by TommyFresh

ACW, I always change the YMMV page. It's a lot of work to do it, so give me some time, please

Ah, cool. Sorry, I'm just a bit impatient I'd do it myself, but for some reason this forum doesn't have a quote feature.

EDIT: Ratchet & Clank has Gleeman Vox as well as Drek. Request add?

edited 21st Sep '13 1:16:25 PM by ACW

Anyone object if these go on the Film sandbox?

• Machine from 8mm
• Dr. Merrick from The Island
• Jan Valek from John Carpenter's Vampires
• Takeo from Ju-on
• Captain Love from The Mask of Zorro
• Owen Davian from Mission: Impossible
• Count Orlok from Nosferatu
• Detective Stansfield from The Professional
• The Rambo entries
• The RoboCop entries
• Shaw from X-Men: First Class

Also, for RoboCop, McDaggett should be written in this: [ = = ], so it doesn't make a red link.

edited 21st Sep '13 1:18:51 PM by TVRulezAgain

I vote .

This was found on Resident Evil: "Wesker. He does seem to have had a genuine friendship with fellow Mad Scientist William Birkin in the backstory, and is also implied to be somewhat disgusted with Umbrella's decision to have him feed his fellow S.T.A.R.S. members to the BO Ws after the Tyrant leak to gain battle data (and likewise was also implied to have a small soft spot for S.T.A.R.S.) but following Birkin's death and his own mutation by the T-Virus, he definitely counts." Well, if he had a friendship and was somewhat disgusted...?

• Hmm...YMMV/Rosenkreuzstilette "However, in Kiora's doujinshi Rosenkreuzstilette AfterStory, otherwise known as Tearis, she gets reduced from a Complete Monster to a Jerkass Woobie who is placed under the care of Spiritia, who believes that killing her won't solve any of the problems she left behind, and thinks she has a kinder, gentler side inside her. Of course, Zorne still blames Iris for her adoptive father's death and vows to kill her, leaving Freudia to attempt to stop her through battle (which gives way to Zorne's new rage-born power), and Iris, knowing of the conflict, asks Spiritia to end her life in order to truly end the ensuing chaos." So, does Iris count?

And I just took care of the Tales YMMV pages.

• Skies of Arcadia has De Loco. Cut?

edited 21st Sep '13 1:44:27 PM by ACW

what? 'Friendship?' Disgust? Wesker doesn't remotely give a damn about anyone save himself. He was fine throwing STARS do the dogs

The Rosen entry...that's a doujin. A fan work...I can't see how that'd affect iris

edited 21st Sep '13 1:44:44 PM by Lightysnake

So just remove that from the YMMV?

EDIT: Hmm..StarCraft has

• Do Darrel and Gorudo count?

WOW that was exhausting.

edited 21st Sep '13 2:22:32 PM by ACW

Daun sounds like a qualifier if the murders and tortures are onscreen, but terrifying a little girl shouldn't be the main thing of the article.

Darrel is a no. He's a Posthumous Character and never appears. Gorudo...it's very, very hard to stack up to Luca Blight

edited 21st Sep '13 2:38:24 PM by Lightysnake

Sea Rover: If you want to do a writeup for Koichi Shido, I see no reason not to add him

Okay, then. Was hoping not to have to by linking to the first post, but here we go again:

Koichi Shido, from the Lucky Star fanfic Broken Dreams. Abuses Kagami and makes her look incompetent at her job after she starts dating him. Pays her family a visit, and attempts to turn her niece and nephew against her. Tadao is the only one who can see through his gentleman facade, and ends up poisoned by his hands, for which Miki is framed, goes to jail, and misses his funeral. Kagami, with Konata's help, eventually comes to her senses and dumps him and tries to fire him, but he instead manages to get her voted out. Afterwards, he seeks to destroy her life and drive her to suicide, and also starts abusing Ayano (who supported Kagami) by forcing her to throw out a picture and a necklace. His actions just continue on, including beating up a dying Konata, snapping former cohort Patricia's neck for having (rightfully) betrayed him^note Be sure to read the prequel fic, The Loss of Innocence, to understand why Patty's even in cahoots with him in the first place, and trapping Ayano inside the law firm that used to be Kagami's as he sets fire to it, before attempting to pay a visit to Kagami's family. He doesn't make it, because Kagami crashes her car into the one he's driving, shortly before the police arrive.

edited 21st Sep '13 3:27:58 PM by SeaRover