During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I'm not QUITE sure Flesh Golem works, as it says SPARE body parts. Body Horror works.
I'm fine with the image.
I'm snagging nothing but I stil have FFVII Remake.
Yeah I don't have much to add. Keep on rocking.
And @ACW Travis Strikes Again was not a No More Heroes game - strictly speaking that is. If it was called NMH 3 fans would be pissed that it didn't play like NMH.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Jun 11th 2019 at 9:18:21 AM
Speaking of Hongou, let me clean up his entry a bit:
- Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors: Gentarō Hongō, better known by his code name "Ace", first appears as a helpful and altruistic ally until he is revealed to be the CEO of Cradle Pharmaceutical(s). He created the First Nonary Game, kidnapping eighteen children and forcing them to commit numerous tasks with their lives on the line, for the sake of curing his prosopagnosia, inability to recognize faces. Hongō personally shoves the young Akane in an incinerator after an unsuccessful escape attempt where she burns alive, being too frightened and clueless to solve the Sudoku puzzle required to escape. In the Second Nonary Game, this time as a participant himself, he intends to betray and murder everyone in exchange for their bracelets, succeeding in the Submarine Ending. First, he successfully murders his three colleagues in order to hide his identity and keep his crimes from never reaching the court. He also murders Clover in the alternate Safe Ending, later taunting her brother Snake how he loved the sensation. An utterly corrupted, delusional and sadistic man, Hongō is willing to murder anyone who stands in his way while at the same time trying to claim that he is a tragic individual.
Rewrite, via 43:
- Aura Battler Dunbine: Lady Luuza Luft manipulates her powerful husband, Lord Drake Luft, so she can conquer Byston Well. Encouraging Drake's war, Luuza cares nothing for the people massacred, as long as it secures her power. Angered by her daughter, Riml, attempting to stop the war, Luuza has her beaten and imprisoned, later threatening Riml's life to make a group of rebels back down. Believing King Bishott Hale to be a better puppet than Drake, Luuza cheats on her husband with the king. When Drake becomes aware of Luuza's treachery, he sends Riml to arrest her, only for Luuza to murder her daughter in cold blood.
We just moved her to the main page in Monster.Western Animation (Man that page has been booming recently. It used to be one of the sparecest pages on the site)
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."I'm starting to think about adding something like "Shows which aired on Cartoon Network at one point can also be found at Western Animation or the various franchise pages" or something. Honestly, if the page hadn't been grandfathered in, it probably wouldn't be created.
Edited by ACW on Jun 11th 2019 at 6:24:45 AM
Well, since nobody else called it I'm reserving the Crystal Chronicles remake in case Raem gets additional crimes. I mean I got Larkeicus approved after all. I think the remake might make him eviler and less of a GSFFN.
Who's currently doing Sword/Shield btw?
Edited by Klavice on Jun 11th 2019 at 3:31:54 AM
Yeah, I think Game!Lusamine was probably heinous enough, while Brainwashed and Crazy, while nobody from the anime even comes CLOSE to meeting the baseline, much less the standard set by Cyrus and J, etc.
Alright, quite a few people wanted an effortpost on Ricardo Diaz. Guess i postponed it for long enough now. Sorry that it took so long, but honestly, I had many things to do and it wasn't exactly something I was looking forward towards doing. Anyways
Who is Ricardo Diaz and what has he done?
Ricardo Diaz first appears as a seemingly minor villain in Arrow Season 6. A drug dealer, who supplies John Diggle with narcotics against his tremors. Later, he is shown to be a part of Cayden James' criminal cabal, acting as something of a CoDragon towards the man, alongside Anatoly Knyazev. Except that he is far more than that. A year ago, he had a hired assassin kill Cayden's son Owen, in order to instigate a vendetta between him and the Green Arrow (he made it look like Oliver carelessly shot his son). While Cayden was leading the war against Oliver and his team, threatening to blow up the city, Diaz made power plays behind the scenes, basically infiltrating Star City's entire infrastructure, buying judges, lawyers, cops etc After Cayden is stopped and in custody, Diaz enters the interrogation room (the new police captain is under his control as well), revealing himself to be the true mastermind and scolding Cayden for so carelessly trying to destroy a city, when he could've taken it over. He then gloats in his face that he was the one who had his son killed and puts a knife in his neck, letting him bleed out. With the city now under his control, Diaz prepares his next step - eliminating the Green Arrow and his teammates. For that matter, he kidnaps Roy Harper and tortures him, trying to force him into testifying against Oliver. He also takes time to clear the SCPD of all officers who are not under his payroll. When Oliver in turn fires the corrupt DA and Police Captain, he has an equally corrupt councilman instigate an impeachment against him, while also drugging him with Vertigo to make him seem insane. He succeeds in getting Oliver out of the way, the city now being completely open for business. Now wanting to play with the big boys, Diaz meets up with The Quadrant, a powerful, nationalwide criminal organization. After first trying to get into the organization by providing a service to one of its members, he is betrayed, causing him to slaughter his way into it instead. After this triumph, he takes some time to settle a personal grudge, locating his former childhood bully and burning him alive. Anatoly presents to him a captured Oliver Queen, whom he tortures for a while, before he is convinced that he must face him in a one-on-one fight to establish his dominance over the city. Diaz "wins" the fight through an underhanded move and then has Oliver arrested and put on trial for being a vigilante, counting on the corrupt judge, Laurel's testimony and threatening the life of Rene Ramirez`s daughter in order to make him comply to put Oliver behind bars for life. With the help of Christopher Chance / The Human Target and Laurel's last-minute change of heart however, that plan fails. Furiously, Diaz executes the corrupt judge and takes Laurel captive, preparing for his Plan B. Plan B meaning, an all-out war with Team Arrow, targeting all of them and their family too. Team Arrow launches a counter-attack, with the FBI and A.R.G.U.S. as their back-up, decimating Diaz's corrupt police forces and taking back the city. Desperate, Diaz calls Quentin Lance (now Mayor of Star City) to remove the FBI from "his" city or else he'll murder Laurel. Quentin meets up with Diaz, but staunchly refuses to comply with the criminal, causing Diaz to fatally shoot him right in front of Laurel. After a final confrontation with Oliver and Laurel, Diaz is blasted off a building right into the river below, heavily injured, but alive and plotting revenge, having made new friends with the Longbow Hunters.Half a year later, Diaz resurfaces, not caring about his business anymore, only about revenge against Oliver, who cost him everything. But since Oliver is in prison now, he targets his family instead, almost killing Felicity and William, informing Oliver about it in prison via a number of inmates that are on his payroll. For further revenge, he decides to steal a prototype battery from A.R.G.U.S. and remodel it into a bomb to blow up the entire city. He also tracks down Anatoly, who previously betrayed him, and murders all of his Bratva brothers. He tortures Anatoly and forces him to contact an old associate who has the components Diaz needs to complete his bomb. Before he can detonate it however, he is stopped by the mysterious new Green Arrow and taken into custody. While in interrogation, he taunts Felicity about the pain he made her suffer through and goads her into killing him, but she ultimately refuses. On the way to prison, Diaz then bribes some guards, but doesn't escape, instead he makes his way into the prison to kick-start a brutal riot as a last shot of vengeance against Oliver. He even goes as far as starting an electrical fire, but in the end it is all for naught and his is beaten down by Oliver and thrown into a cell. Later, he is recruited into the Ghost Initiave, the new incarnation of the Suicide Squad. He tries to go rogue several times to get another shot at revenge, trying to contact Dante, the (apparent) leader of the Ninth Circle, who provided him with the Longbow Hunters. It fails, and he sent back to prison, this time to rot for good.....or not. As Emiko Adachi, the mysterious new Green Arrow, and secretly the real leader of the Ninth Circle, visits him in prison and burns him alive. That was the end of Ricardo Diaz.
Heinous Standart
Now, having written all of this down again, it just reiterates my belief that no, Diaz is not special in any way. All of what he did has been done before. Hell, for the most part he doesn't even try to be as bad as he could. He wants to make business, first and foremost. Sure, after he loses everything he goes off the deep end, it also gets very personal with Oliver at that point, but still.....nothing he does stands out in any way, particularly for somebody who has been around for one season and a half. Slade and Adrian Chase went to far more extreme lengths to hurt Oliver on a personal level and destroying the city....seriously, thats like tuesday by now.Redeeming qualities?
This is another problem. First off, there is his Freudian Excuse. He always tried to live up to his father's example. After the man died, he was put into an absolutely hellish orphanage, where he had to fight every day for every little scrap of food while being tormented by an older bully, who burned his arms and even tried to destroy the last remaining picture of his father by throwing it into a fire. Diaz managed to pull out half of it while severely burning himself. Years later, he takes revenge on said bully by burning him alive, throwing the half-destroyed picture of his father into the fire as well. Some people took that as an argument to say that he didn't love his father anymore, but I disagree. It was more of an ironic punishment, while also burying his past. At no point was it directly stated that he didn't care for him anymore. A more ambiguous thing would be the care for his associates. At one point he says, that he sees his men as his brothers, family. Now, as long as they don't betray him, he indeed seems to treat them quite well, as evidence of his relationships with Anatoly and Laurel. Outside associates however he often blackmails and forces into his service, and later he seems to abandon this quality while becoming more obsessed with revenge, disregarding everything else. Nevertheless, the first point still stands.Final Verdict
Well, I've said it before and I still say it, I don't see Diaz qualifying as a CM at all. He is generic, in pretty much every way. As you know, I didn't even plan to EP him, but since many people asked, here you go. Feel free to discuss, but from me, he gets a solidEdited by Forenperser on Jun 11th 2019 at 1:15:17 PM
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian

Thoughts on this image?
Gentarou Hongou
from Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors