During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Screw it, one more.
What's the work?
The Arena is a 1974 film, that's very, very confused about what it wants to be, featuring a group of women captured by the Romans and made into slaves, and eventually gladiator by their lecherous, wicked master Timarchus who is the cuddliest evil bastard ever. The film is...well, it's an experience to say the very, very least.
Who is Timarchus?
A lecherous, fat pig of a Roman who has the heroines, Boadica, Mamawi and others abducted and made into his slaves, Timarchus runs parties where his slaves are expected to perform, and allows their rape by other Romans, also forcing the women to service his gladiator. Timarchus is shown to be a remarkably cowardly, greasy little bastard throughout, and then he has the idea for a spectacle: force the women to fight as gladiators in the arena, putting them through grueling training for the fun of the show...the first fight is basically a slapstick farce, but the second? A woman named Livia ends up fighting Mamawi who disarms her and while he's initially a bit overwhelmed by pressure, Timarchus hears the shouts of 'death' and orders Livia killed...when Mamawi hesitates? He threatens her life and has her grazed with an arrow. Mamawi kills Livia.
This continues, with Timarchus losing all hesitation. When Livia's lover, a gladiator named Septimus, is incensed by this and tries to attack Timarchus, Timarchus orders him crucified despite his soldier pointing out Septimus's years of service. Mamawi is placed against Boadica afterward, and forcd to fight wth Timarchus smugly ordering her death after, with archers at the ready...except the women lay a trap and kill the soldiers, with Timarchus shoved into the arena. Despite frantically begging for his life, Mamawi ends up dispatching him with a well placed stab.
Heinousness?
Oh, worst in film. I mean, Roman society is rotten, but he does the most, of course.
Mitigating Qualities?
The film plays him as reprehensible, even if his actor kinda hits a...weirdly, endearing bumbling uncle sort of performance through it. Take that as you will, even as people remark how bad he is, he's kind of....cuddly in a way? Like, evil Roman uncle? I digress...no, not really, nothing of note here.
Conclusion?
Keep Cuddly Uncle CM
I've got some criticism for the quote on the JoJo's Bizarre Adventure page. While a good quote, I don't think it fits the CM trope since Speedwagon doesn't go into any real detail beyond You Monster! on why Dio is a CM, nor does it show his vileness beyond the pale(usually it's either the CM saying something particularly despicable about what they do, or is a response to the particularly despicable thing the CM did/has done). It's more a Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse quote since it more goals into detail about how Dio isn't a victim of circumstance and shouldn't be sympathized with.
to all candidates i missed, aside from Jimmy Neutron one.
Well, it's been two weeks since digital release of animated crossover "Batman vs The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" (in my country anyway), so here is the villain duo.
What's the Work
"Batman vs TMNT" is a very cool animated crossover between Batman and TMNT franchise, based on 2015 IDW/DC 6 part crossover comic mini-series. It follows Batman and TMNT as they try to stop Ra's Al Ghul and Shredder from unleashing a dangerous virus upon the city.
My candidates are the villainous duo of the movie - Shredder and Ra's Al Ghul.
Who is He/What Has He Done
Sometime before the events of the movie, Shredder and Ra's Al Ghul stroke a deal, Shredder will help Ra's build the machine, capable of spreading mutagen across whole city and thus creating chaos and destruction around Gotham (and later the whole world as well), in return Ra's will provide Shredder with the location of the Lazarus Pits (thus providing Shredder with immortality). Foot Clan manage to invade various scient facilities and kidnap almost all important parts to create a machine. For the last piece - Cloud Seeder, Foot Clan and Shredder invade Wayne Enterprises at night and try to murder all scientists there, only for it revealed to be hologram created by Batman, to ambush Foot Clan and try to get answers from them. As Batman interrogates the last standing Foot soldier, Shredder kills that soldier to prevent him from talking. Shredder and Batman start fighting, with Shredder coming out victorious after big struggle. Due to being weakened from using Sato Oshi Strike (a hundreds years old ninja technique, that takes away energy from its users to make attacks more powerful) Shredder escape without killing Batman.
After failing to acquire Cloud Seeder, Shredder is met with annoyed Ra's Al Ghul, who makes some change to their plans. After witnessing a demonstration of mutagen effects on one of his loyal warriors of League of Assassins, Ra's Al Ghul takes Shredder to Arkham Asylum, where after killing all the guards, Ra's takes Joker Venom formula (which he wants to combine with mutagen, which would not only mutate people, but turns them homicidal and mad) from Joker, giving him mutagen in return and freeing all the inmates to provide a distraction for Batman and Turtles. After that Ra's and Shredder acquire Cloud Seeder from Penguin, killing all Penguin's henchmen, when he asks for money in return, scaring him to back off and leave.
As Ra's and Shredder prepare to launch their machine to infect all Gotham, Bat-family and Turtles attack them. Shredder and Ra's get separated, as Batman takes on the Shredder and Ra's fights Leonardo and Donatello. Ra's very brutally breaks Donatello's arm and beats Leonardo to the ground, but Leonardo got better on him by kicking him in the balls and pressing his pressure points causing Ra's to be knocked out. As Ra's got beaten, Shredder proclaims that he will take over League of Assassins in addition of harnessing the power of the Lazarus Pits. But Turtles destroy the machine, while Batman beats the Shredder, causing him to fall in to chemicals (the same ones that created the Joker). The Stringer shows Shredder being Jokerized and end on Sequel Hook.
Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors
Nothing for both. This movie set in the alternative universe, where TMNT and Batman live in the same world, so both versions are different from their main iterations.
Ra's Al Ghul doesn't have any well-intentioned motives his other versions have, he doesn't care about his loyal followers (he has one test mutagen on himself, with a smile stating that "We are legion, I have many more just like him" and mutation process was shown to be extremely painful and potentially deadly). All he wants is to "let the city to destroy itself", to have it "reborn anew" under his leadership. There is no "better world" or "saving the Earth", just quest for power (that he had in comic it was based on).
Shredder though did everything only to acquire the access to Lazarus Pits and when Ra's got defeated openly stated that he will take control of League of Assassins and harness Lazarus Pits to "rule for a thousand years". He only spared batman because he didn't have enough strength to finish him off and is as much of Bad boss as Ra's, killing his minion without blinking to prevent him from talking and constantly abusing Baxter Stockman.
Heinous Standard
Both have dozens victims in their on-screen bodycount, in addition they try to spread the new mutagen (combined with Joker Venom) across whole Gotham (and later plan to do this upon the world as well) turning citizens in to mad mutants, who will kill and tear apart everything in their sight. We see the effects of this mutagen on Batman, as when he was briefly mutated by it, he turns homicidal and throw Two-Face from the high window and seemingly kills Mr. Freeze (we see mutated Batman broke the floor below him and Freeze and take him below, then we hear the screams of Freeze and sound of slaughter and meat tearing apart, we don't see Mr. Freeze ever again after that).
Final Verdict
What do you think
Edited by VeryVileVillian on May 28th 2019 at 10:28:18 PM
And the last COC potential tonight, from the "This Fire Shall Kill" scenario of The Stars are Right? Lieutenant Robert Hardman.
Who is Hardman? What has he done?
Robert Hardman is seeming an upstanding member of his community, a firefighter who more than ones has risked his life to save the innocent with a service record tracking back to decades. Except, as it turns out, this life, even the supposedly loving family he fostered, was a lie; Hardman turned to the service of Cthugha, and starts deliberately setting entire buildings on fire to torch them down and burn alive everyone inside as offerings to Cthugha. Hardman repeatedly arrives ever-inconveniently too late to the scene of a crime, mourning even a fellow firefighter who died on the case... who might have known something he shouldn't have...
Investigating Hardman reveals his service record has an unusually high amount of fatalities on his case, and his daughter is for some reason a giggling, insane pyromaniac who attempts to set the investigators on fire. It turns out Hardman's ambitions are even worse; Hardman's destroyed the minds of everyone in his department by drugging them into obedient mindlessness, to sacrifice them all up to Cthugha's flames. Hardman, in the end, attempts to use Cthugha's flames to burn down all of San Francisco, consuming everyone in a grand, blazing holocaust. Hardman is either shot or knocked off the perch he stands to splat on the floor, with Cthugha mercifully stopped before the city can be torched.
Any mitigating factors?
Nada. He never interacts with his family beyond as simply a front (and his daughter is stated to be "warped") and I think he clears the standard even among many average cult leaders; sacrificing San Francisco to be burned alive alongside all his other horrible murders is pretty bloody awful.
Conclusion?
Keep him.
Thoughts?
Edited by Scraggle on May 28th 2019 at 12:50:32 PM
Kaz: Fair point, but I HIGHLY doubt Brainiac feels guilt over his actions. That'd be too out of character. Here's the full scene:
He had been strippedd of his armor, and he was disconnected from the Skull Ship. He now wore the white prison garment that the Lex Luthor Prison provided, and he looked like a shadow of the formidable conqueror he once was. He knew that Supergirl was watching him from the outside, but he didn't seem to care. Brainiac looked to be in deep thought about everything that had happened, and Supergirl was able to see the overwhelming shame on his face.
Yet Supergirl found it strange. This was the man that destroyed her world, and countless others, and now he sat bitterly in this cell; he would soon be taken to Oa to stand trial. In the end, Supergirl didn't really care. He deserved it. She briefly felt her leg, which had recovered quickly, as she gazed at the Coluan.
After a few moments, Supergirl decided to leave Brainiac alone, and she left the room, right to where the other prisoners were being kept. Aquaman, Black Adam, and Wonder Woman were locked up, and all bore similar looks of shame - they were awaiting their own, long overdue trials. Wonder Woman had been paralyzed – it was an accident on Cyborg's part – and she and Black Adam looked distraught. They had heard about what Superman, the man they had once sworn their unwavering loyalty, had done.
Micheal: If you want a Brainiac of your own, I'd suggest looking at fanfics, as I think all his other incarnations have been taken (well, there's one, but you'd have to talk to Scraggle about that).
RJ, fair point. Got a better quote? Either of these better?
Everyone from Anapa on.
I honestly don't find it okay to be voting for a picture here. No other cleanup thread has that right. We have a specific forum for voting on this. If you wanna vote against it, do it there.
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% ScandinavianYes to Cross, Timarchus, Shredder, Ra's (that feels weird to say) and Hardman.
Edited by Bullman on May 28th 2019 at 6:29:49 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
to all the candidates listed here
Also it’s the 28th which means that we can discuss A Plague Tale Innocence.
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff

Was just waiting for him to be effortposted.