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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#163826: May 18th 2019 at 11:28:38 PM

[tup] there.

As a side note, if the movie intended to have some Anti BDSM Slant or make it look unappealing. Maybe dressing a hot Chick in a Dominatrix Outfit wasn't a good start....

Edited by Kylotrope on May 18th 2019 at 11:29:38 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#163827: May 18th 2019 at 11:45:33 PM

[tup]to Emil and Cthulhu baddies.

BTW, since there are so many CM from adaptations of Cthulhu Mythos plus CM from original stories, is it time for Cthulhu Mythos to have it's own page?

I mean, Sherlock Holmes has it's own page and there are no keepers from original Arthur Conan Doyle's stories, only from adaptations and books from other writers.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on May 18th 2019 at 9:45:54 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#163828: May 18th 2019 at 11:49:30 PM

The mythos proper? I'd say no. It's so open to changes and interpretation whereas Holmes functions around a single character.

In addition, the tabletop game will need its own page by the time we're done

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#163829: May 18th 2019 at 11:58:50 PM

[tup]Emil Hirsch and Oscar Pretorius.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#163830: May 18th 2019 at 11:59:36 PM

@Scraggle You guys are very precise, but then again, someone has to be.

I have a new EP, but it might be controversial, so I'm gonna hold off.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#163831: May 19th 2019 at 12:01:08 AM

[tup]Emil Hirsch and Oscar Pretorius.

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#163832: May 19th 2019 at 12:05:09 AM

[up][up]We all try to be precise. But they have been writing for longer, and so, know certain plot devices much better than a lot of the thread.

Hence why I suggested that edit to the laconic a while back about the monsters standing out by story standards.

Also, what took you so long to get a live action avatar, Lighty?

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 19th 2019 at 3:06:20 PM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#163833: May 19th 2019 at 12:33:05 AM

I might unveil the EP on 4/1, but it'll likely never see the light of day.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 19th 2019 at 12:33:17 PM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#163835: May 19th 2019 at 12:36:19 AM

@Austin I was gonna say I don't get it, but I think I do... If I do, then yeah, that's funny.

Actually, it'll never ever see the light of day on this thread, but I would be willing to send it to anyone at any time who is interested though.

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#163836: May 19th 2019 at 2:32:43 AM

[tup] Pretorius.

I almost watched the film to confirm if he was a keep or not but ended up thinking he was a villainous case of Go Mad from the Revelation.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on May 19th 2019 at 6:34:56 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#163837: May 19th 2019 at 2:59:45 AM

VVV, I was wondering the same thing.

Yes to the first Radu image (which I've added to the batch); no to the second (which I haven't).

[tup] Ygy (and yes, I think Helen WOULD enjoy it, psychotic bitch that she is [lol]); Douanier; Emil (I'll just ascribe it to being a Psycho Supporter); Pretorius; Wolff; Kindly.

I assume the reason the original Cthulhu doesn't count is Blue-and-Orange Morality?

Kylo: The quote's actually from the film (it's his last words). I kinda like your suggestion too. Thoughts?

nrjkxx: I dunno, the Master looks pretty goofy.

Edited by ACW on May 19th 2019 at 6:02:31 AM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#163838: May 19th 2019 at 3:18:21 AM

*deep breath* [tup] to Bishop, Draven, Y'golonac, Le Douanier, Kindly, Emil and Dr. Pretorius.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#163839: May 19th 2019 at 3:22:53 AM

Added to the batch, besides that first image:

  • The Plumber Knight Returns: The Koopa is a far darker incarnation of The Darkness. The leader of the terrorists known as the Goombas, the Koopa took over and ruled Ferral City with his forces, punishing anyone who disobeys him, including his own men. The Koopa claims to be the killer of Luigi just to goad Mario out of retirement so he could defeat him once and for all and then sends Jeckal to kidnap Mario's friend and ally John Gibbs and tortures him to near-death, leading to him dying from his injuries later. The Koopa lures Mario into the woods in an attempt to kill him, disappearing before returning in season 2 to finish his plans, killing the Blue Hood, a cybernetically enhanced and brainwashed Luigi, after he comes to his senses, just to spite Mario further. The Darkness reveals he wishes drown the world in chaos and madness by manipulating humanity from the shadows and make them give into negative desires and emotions. A sadistic and inhuman psychopath who sees happiness and joy as facades, this version of the Darkness is a chaos-worshipping lunatic driven by his jealousy of life itself.

I'm holding off on the Sniper Elite tree until Wolff is written up.

Edited by ACW on May 19th 2019 at 6:24:15 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#163840: May 19th 2019 at 3:33:01 AM

There's boatloads of reasons the original Cthulhu doesn't count. The exact same reason we disqualify every single Great Old One/Outer God not named Nyarlathotep and Y'golonac (from the original Mythos, at least—COC throws in Eihort, who simply fails the standard in the actual Mythos).

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#163841: May 19th 2019 at 4:24:49 AM

I actually read the original Call of Cthulhu story for the first time recently. It's real good. I can see why it's so beloved.

Man you guys got a load of EP's up. I concur with the thread's opinions on all of them, including Y'fat rape guy. But... I'll abstain on Lord Draven. I might need to watch that myself to make a judgement.

I agree that the Mythos itself shouldn't have a page due to how disconnected the stories are. Like, would the Neverkind saga be included? What about stories that just happen to have Cthulhu in them?

Oh, and Lighty has a candidate for COC that we all know? SWEET! Can't wait for another version of Squidward!

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#163842: May 19th 2019 at 4:31:43 AM

[tup] to Dr. Wolff, Le Douanier, Kindly, Emil, and Dr. Pretorius.

BTW, who is the Complete Monster who only counts in a fan-translated work? Scraggle mentioned that there was at least one a few times, and I'm just intrested in knowing who it is.

Edited by falcontalons on May 19th 2019 at 4:46:46 AM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#163843: May 19th 2019 at 4:36:49 AM

[up][up]To be clear, i meant ONLY stories, that were directly adapted from Cthulhu Mythos to be included in a page (like both Call of Cthulhu video games, comic adaptations and movie adaptations) and not the ones that just have one of the Old Gods or Outer Gods in them. And as i said there is more than enough of direct adaptations of Chutlhu Mythos for a page (especially including original mythos).

Edited by VeryVileVillian on May 19th 2019 at 2:39:31 PM

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#163844: May 19th 2019 at 5:32:53 AM

Ah, I apologise for not reading your text correctly. Hm. I mean... I guess I could go either way? But I'll defer to Lighty and Scraggle on Lovecraft related issues.

Speaking of: Lighty and Scraggle, I have question for you - are there any deities in the Cthulhu Mythos that are "good" or benevolent towards mankind? And did Lovecraft create any of them?

My other question is what are your favourite Lovecraft film adaptations?

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#163845: May 19th 2019 at 5:33:37 AM

I'll say yea to what I missed and since it's the 19th, weigh in on the Code Geass movie: no one counts... the main villains are a brother and sister who love each other (in a genuine, if incesty way but that's nothing new for the series) and like many before them, have good intentions. For minor villains with no redeeming qualities there are two: one's a bandit-turned-warden who muses over the idea of letting a subordinate rape Kallen and brags about having his way with other female prisoners but that's all we get and doesn't even come close to the kinda things Luciano Bradley did; the other is a sadistic Geass-user who had a past in V.V.'s Geass cult but we don't get anymore details on that matter and his villainy just consists of using his powers to make his enemies try to kill each other. Standard villainy.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#163846: May 19th 2019 at 5:34:23 AM

[tup] to everyone I missed

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#163847: May 19th 2019 at 5:35:19 AM

[up][up][up] Honestly, from the little I know about the Mythos, besides the ones that are actually evil (Nyarly, Ygy, and apparently Eihort), the rest fall under Blue-and-Orange Morality (though I could be wrong).

Edited by ACW on May 19th 2019 at 8:35:27 AM

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#163849: May 19th 2019 at 5:51:37 AM

[up]I don't know; it kinda looks like he loves the kid.

EDIT: Actually, I didn't read the caption: I think I'll say yes to the image.

[down]Wrong word to use; I meant this line below the image: “Then after the night he take us away...”.

Edited by falcontalons on May 19th 2019 at 6:00:28 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#163850: May 19th 2019 at 5:59:04 AM

Cannot see the caption. What is it supposed to be?


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