During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Abstain on ellen.
Rawr.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
@ACW: I still say cut the Kirby fanfic entries, but I'll reread the stories if y'all are that curious for my thorough validation.
Not touching the Mr. Bear debate though.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
I'd say cut Ellen. My "cut" for the Kirby fanfic ones and Mr. Bear remain—for the latter, it's not that I'm worried about his character being thin so much as the premise itself. A story that's nothing but recapping the awful deeds of a child killer (with concerns of plagiarism, if I'm hearing this right) and nothing else doesn't seem at home here.
The wifi here sucks
I read the 2nd fanfic and I say cut.
If I remember right this thread doesn't allow C Ms from stories that are basically just lists of crimes with little other plot. If that description applies to the story then I say cut Mr. Bear
Edited by papyru30 on May 15th 2019 at 7:32:26 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Lizzid people!
Alright so that's a cut for me and Scraggle on Ellen. Feel free to discuss her because I think Mr. Bear's already pretty much a closed deal, but I otherwise don't care much whether he stays or not. I lean more towards the notion that Scraggle gave on his evaluation on Mr. Bear, but I otherwise won't contest it further on what's ultimately decided on him.
With that being said, I do genuinely appreciate the birthday wishes.
Edited by AustinDR on May 15th 2019 at 6:34:09 AM
I read the Kirby fanfics as well, they're both barely over 1k words and neither character or story is really developed at all. They get the bare minimum of characterization and each story is just "bad guy does bad things then dies". They honestly read like they were written solely to get a character listed as a Complete Monster and no effort was put into anything other than writing evil things for the villains to do. I still firmly say cut both of them.
And I agree with cutting Ellen as well.
Edited by TommyFresh on May 15th 2019 at 6:37:57 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Sure cut Ellen
Also? Potentially count LS down to discuss Black Widow's latest comic next week.
Messenger from another dimension.
Cut Ellen.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Okay good. Seems other people have the exact same thought as mine regarding those Kirby fanfics. Pretty damn sure those were just written just to say "Hey, here's a CM from a Kirby story!" I can write stories of that magnitude in an hour. One. Singular.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Was gonna give a Weak Keep to Ellen. But upon consideration I'm just gonna abstain.
Cut the Kirby guys if all that's true though.
Edited by Kylotrope on May 15th 2019 at 6:57:10 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Showtime!
After some thought, changing to an abstain on Ellen. I don't feel like I know the media or genre well enough
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Carrot Clone
Cut Kirby guys, and abstain on Ellen.
Also, I just found out that they're rebooting the J-sploitation classic The Machine Girl, this time calling it Rise of the Machine Girls. I... don't know what to make of this, but hey, a J-sploitation flick with possible candidates.
Hmmmm. I'd say cut Ellen. Deliberately miscarriaging an (what I am assuming is) underdeveloped baby isn't anywhere near as bad as actually killing a living, breathing baby.
Edited by username2527 on May 15th 2019 at 8:00:33 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
For the purposes of this thread, I'd consider Ellen insufficiently heinous. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
RIP Akira Toriyama
Cut Bear IMO, and Ellen.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
You know, I'm just gonna throw in a Weak Keep for Ellen. Deliberately Miscarrying a baby is...Uniquely screwed up. I Abstained earlier Cause of not wanting to go against the popular vote, But I've changed my mind. Don't expect it to change much but meh.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'm on the same boat as you to but I'll just leave it at that. Also, axe Mr. Bear
The wifi here sucks
I'm leaning towards keep for her as well
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
I think I'll give Ellen a weak no. The self-induced miscarriage is legitimately awful, but that paired with one murder just doesn't give her enough to stand out I feel. And on second thought, I'm a lot more okay with cutting the Kirby examples after reading people's arguments for cutting them and while I still don't agree? I feel a lot better about Mr. Bear.
Maybe it's because I'm in a really, really good mood due to some great news that came my way. I dunno, but I'm a lot happier to let them go than I was earlier.
I'm kind of feeling the exact same on "good news", actually.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Balor
Jeffery
Jenkin
Alberico
Keep Mr. Bear
And Ellen...mmm...man, she's really a abusive jackass. This is hard.
Happy Birthday Austin!
Edited by KazuyaProta on May 15th 2019 at 11:33:24 AM
Watch me destroying my country
It's more that she deliberately gave herself one by falling down a flight of stairs. All so she could keep Richard to herself. But, yes, that is why I'm asking.
Edited by AustinDR on May 15th 2019 at 6:04:59 AM