During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to the ones mentioned, but leaning on keep for Mr. Bear.
I personally don't like the thought of cutting Mr. Bear myself. I mean, his story is dark and horrible things happen to children, but I still feel that it's written well-enough to avoid being like the terrible, pointless grimderp stuff that got cut during the nosleep reassessment. I can understand more if it's because you just can't read it anywhere, anymore... but given how popular of a story it is, I'd rather hold off on it since it's bound to be reposted by somebody elsewhere on the internet. Similarly, I've given the Kirby stories a glimpse and don't like the idea of cutting them.
It got removed due to plagiarism accusations. To me, all the story amounts to is "Look at me bludgeon this kiddie, ooo,spoopy!"
My issue is again the lack of characterization with Mr, Bear and that it is nothing more than shock value. Even if it was well written, I don't consider that an argument. And then the whole plagiarism scandal where the story was not getting updated by the original author but someone else without his consent...all of that is one enormous mess.
Edited by AustinDR on May 15th 2019 at 4:28:55 AM
I'm pretty sure there are still plenty of videos of people doing dramatic readings of 1999 on You Tube so the story still exists. But I still think its plot is thin. From what I recall the plot is just a guy looking into this disturbing show and watching videos of Mr. Bear brutally murdering children.
Yeah I agree. Mr. Bear's motivations are still firm. Creeps Mc Pasta has a reading of the story on Youtube and when I listened to it, I sure as hell felt how much of a monster this guy was. I say keep Mr. Bear.
So another potential cut was Ellen Berent from Leave Her to Heaven. I had initially suggested her on the grounds that while she had a low body count (Richard's brother and she also aborted her own child), she otherwise ended up killing herself to blame her half-sister for the murder. It is a Film Noir and she is the only antagonist in the film, I was debating on whether or not she breached the general baseline. I mostly decided to discuss her namely because her intentionally provoking a miscarriage in herself, but aside from that, is she overall heinous enough?
Edited by AustinDR on May 15th 2019 at 5:38:48 AM
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Honestly, I was wondering about her too. Although, purposefully aborting her own child may be heinous enough. I'll lean weak keep for now.
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Well, I thought it might count because it seemed like her husband wanted the child, and she was jealous of all the attention it would get.
Edited by falcontalons on May 15th 2019 at 6:04:22 AM

Eh, I won't cause some big Drama but I Persoanlly still lean to keeping Bear. It sounds like there is a Plot but has alot of Shock Value. Wich I find Differant from Pointless schlock.(The main Reason Nemesis is Still up)
Don't mind him getting cut though.
Edited by Kylotrope on May 15th 2019 at 4:10:33 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here