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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#162626: May 11th 2019 at 7:05:21 PM

Okay, another post incoming...

What's the setting?

John Wick is Keanu Reeves' comeback vehicle: a slick, stylish series of action movies with its third installment, Parabellum, on the way next weekend. John Wick, our title character, is a retired freelance assassin who just wants to settle down with his wife... except she dies, leaving him heartbroken. And when some Russian punks steal his car, beat him almost to death, and kill his puppy—the last thing Wick's wife left him—John snaps and engages on a Roaring Rampage of Revenge to end them all.

Now, nobody counts in the two movies released so far. Ms. Perkins from the first is a bloodthirsty bitch and Santino from the second is vile, but neither of them pass the standard, particularly in a world where it seems like everyone is a professional killer, albeit most honor-bound by the rules of the Continental. So, in curiosity, and to drum up hype for Parabellum, I took a look at the Dynamite Comics miniseries of the same name... we got one. Enter Calamity.

Who is Calamity? What has she done?

The bloodthirsty associate of a trio of killers called the "Three Bills" (Buffalo, Peso and Billy—with Calamity herself clearly a nod to Calamity Jane) and in essentially their daughter, Calamity is a psychopath fascinated with nothing more than death and destruction. A walking nightmare who desolated a series of villages in Mexico and slaughtered countless innocent people during her days as an assassin for nothing more than fun, Calamity first made herself known to John when he was a kid. Stealing some dope from the three Bills, Calamity decided to take care of the kid by firing a rocket launcher on him... blowing up the populated village they were in. Fifty-three people are killed with the Bills forced to clean up all the witnesses. Thankfully, after this incident, Calamity was locked away for a decade... until the old gang rings her back up.

John is on the tails of the Three Bills for their part in the massacre Calamity started (Peso's already dead), and Calamity herself is brought onto the table. Calamity displays her gratitude to the member of the Continental who tries to free her by murdering her the instant she's within range of a firearm again, as well as all of her men under the justification "they weren't nice", before breaking out and reuniting with the Bills. Calamity realizes John is trying to bait her to a place with no innocent civilians, and says "I got a better idea" before firing her rocket launcher into the middle of the city, blowing up a populated building and deliberately firing on innocents while cackling. Calamity eventually takes three innocents hostage when John takes Billy in turn... John briefly tries to convince Calamity that killing Billy and Buffalo would be fun. Calamity considers it for a second, turning it down only because "it'd be over way too soon, wouldn't it?" Eventually, the two square off and of course John wins, putting down the mad bitch once and for all with a few rounds.

Any mitigating factors?

Now, Calamity has a sort-of kind-of Freudian Excuse in that she was found in a box as a kid and raised by the three Bills... and she's been a fucking nutjob since birth. With that said, this isn't disqualifying in the least. She's nuts, but she's very much cognizant enough to know what she's doing is wrong (she's a Card-Carrying Villain extraordinaire—John literally says "you kill others just for the fun of it" and she goes "that's right!") and she even mocks John when he hesitates because of said excuse ("Thinking about the kid in the box? I'll put you in a box!"). Calamity's hysterically aware she's a bloodthirsty psychopath and revels in every second of it, with no care even toward the three Bills who themselves have some semblance of standards.

Heinous standard? I'm not going to sugarcoat it—Calamity, at the moment, is literally the nastiest character in the series. The main problem with villains in the John Wick universe is the uphill road they have to climb to stand out in a world full of professional murderers, and even those who flaunt the rules of the Continental generally just don't go far enough. Calamity? A body-count going into the double-digits, no redeeming qualities, deliberately singling out innocent people? There is no single named character in the series with her body count or complete lack of any justifiable reason to murder.

Conclusion?

Keeper. The first from John Wick, hopefully not the last—I'm monitoring the series close.

Thoughts?

Edited by Scraggle on May 11th 2019 at 7:10:08 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#162629: May 11th 2019 at 7:21:43 PM

[tup] to Calamity.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on May 11th 2019 at 7:22:07 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#162630: May 11th 2019 at 7:24:52 PM

Why does Calamity try to kill the young John? Yes to her.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#162631: May 11th 2019 at 7:26:18 PM

[up] He stole dope from the Bills. Calamity decides blowing him up is appropriate recourse.

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#162632: May 11th 2019 at 7:27:07 PM

[tup] to Calamity

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#162633: May 11th 2019 at 7:27:45 PM

[tup]Anyone I missed.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#162634: May 11th 2019 at 7:28:41 PM

Oh, it was him (as a child?) who stole dope. I thought she stole it and he was a witness or something.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#162635: May 11th 2019 at 7:30:58 PM

[tup] for Calamity.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
#162636: May 11th 2019 at 7:43:47 PM

[tup]Fighting Fantasy trio and Calamity

Sircray Since: Apr, 2018
#162637: May 11th 2019 at 8:03:36 PM

Admiral Rodriguez from the Zorro: Generation Z episode "The Rival"

The Show: In 2015, teenager Diego de la Vega, the latest descendant of the legendary vigilante Zorro, dons the mantle of Zorro, and begins fighting injustice in the Southern California city of Pueblo Grande. Assisting Diego are his tech-savvy mute friend Bernardo, and fellow vigilante the Scarlet Whip, who is secretly Maria Martinez, the daughter of Pueblo Grande's corrupt mayor, Horace Hernando Martinez.

Who They Are: A Navy admiral stationed at Pueblo Grande's naval base, Rodriguez is secretly corrupt, providing Mayor Martinez with goods (like weapons) under the pretense of them being "surplus." The implementation of new technology, like a satellite missile defense system, prompted the Navy to do a lot of downsizing, and as a result, Rodriguez is made to retire early, to his immense consternation. Rounding up a group of sailors who were still loyal to him, Rodriguez has them begin stealing munitions with the reluctant aid of his nephew, Raphael.

What They Do: At a retirement party on his private galleon, Rodriguez is greeted by the mayor, who notes that he will miss Rodriguez's "generous contributions" of "Navy surplus." Rodriguez laments his unwilling retirement, stating, "Nowadays, they think all you need are a bunch of satellite missiles and some fancy launch codes to win wars."

A few nights later, Rodriguez calls Raphael, and has him help the rest of the crew load the galleon with the stolen munitions. Zorro and the Scarlet Whip, who had discerned that Rodriguez was behind the munitions thefts, sneak aboard the galleon, and overhear Rodriguez rigging the munitions to explode in ten minutes. The heroes end up being captured by Rodriguez, who explains that he is going to ram the rigged galleon into the naval base, killing hundreds. When asked what this act of mass murder will get him, Rodriguez declares that it is all about revenge and proving to everyone that he is still a force to be reckoned with. Rodriguez leaves Raphael to guard the heroes, but he releases them, and explains that he has finally accepted that his beloved uncle has lost it, and must be stopped. As Raphael works on diffusing the munitions, he reveals to Zorro and the Scarlet Whip that his uncle has stolen the launch codes for the new satellite missile defense system, and that he is going to launch the missiles at the naval base after crashing the galleon into it, utterly obliterating the base as well as all of Pueblo Grande, killing thousands more on top of the hundreds that will die in the galleon bombing.

The Scarlet Whip combats Rodriguez's men while Zorro goes after Rodriguez. When a henchman suggests to Rodriguez that they evacuate the galleon early due to the heroes, Rodriguez calls him a fool and shoves him back into the fray while revealing that the escape submarine only holds one, and that he had planned from the start to abandon his crew and nephew to die in the galleon crash while he made his getaway. The Scarlet Whip rounds up Rodriguez's men, Raphael is able to stop the galleon and prevent it from exploding, and Zorro apprehends Rodriguez and prevents him from launching the satellite missiles.

Mitigating Factors: Being made to retire early (it's not like he was court-martialed or dishonorably discharged) isn't much of a Freudian Excuse, and he was engaged in criminal activities even before his retirement. He initially seemed to like his nephew, regardless of the boy's questionable loyalties, but then came the reveal that he was going to dispose of him along with the rest of his followers.

Heinousness: While the mayor, his underlings, and other villains enacted criminal schemes that could potentially result in fatalities, they tended to avoid utterly wanton death and destruction, and were motivated by things like profit, power, and getting rid of Zorro and the Scarlet Whip. Rodriguez's objective was to simply kill and destroy as much as possible, and he was motivated solely by a combination of Disproportionate Retribution and stroking his own ego. The mayor and major secondary villain Gloria Sheffield also loved their children, in contrast to Rodriguez, who was perfectly fine with killing a member of his own family, not to mention all of his loyal henchmen.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#162638: May 11th 2019 at 8:09:11 PM

[tup]Admiral Rodriguez.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#162639: May 11th 2019 at 8:09:38 PM

[tup]Fighting Fantasy trio and Calamity

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#162640: May 11th 2019 at 8:13:17 PM

Yes to Rodriguez. I think he's just the second Zorro CM after Harrison Love.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#162641: May 11th 2019 at 8:13:40 PM

[up] Two from the Django crossover, too. Aye to Rodriguez.

Edited by Scraggle on May 11th 2019 at 8:14:11 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#162642: May 11th 2019 at 8:17:16 PM

Ah right.

BTW, what happens to Buffalo Bill and William...Bill?

[down] Ah, of course [lol]

You know, I get the feeling I'd like the movies.

Edited by ACW on May 11th 2019 at 11:23:31 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#162643: May 11th 2019 at 8:19:21 PM

Shot. John Wick's classic style.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#162644: May 11th 2019 at 8:19:37 PM

[tup] Calamity, FF trio and Rodriguez

Sircray Since: Apr, 2018
#162645: May 11th 2019 at 8:27:51 PM

Yes to Rodriguez. I think he's just the second Zorro CM after Harrison Love.

There's also two listed for a comic book crossover between Zorro and Django.

Probably more. Character's been around since the... 1920s?

[nja]

Edited by Sircray on May 11th 2019 at 12:28:12 PM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#162648: May 11th 2019 at 8:30:34 PM

Yea there. There's also a Zorro anime that's been on my list for...forever.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#162649: May 11th 2019 at 8:34:16 PM

1919 in fact.

BTW, Lighty, wasn't there an Alice Isn't Dead novel you had mentioned?

As for Age of Apocalypse, I'd do that, since I want an Apocalypse, but Archive Panic.

I'd do Age of Ultron, but I already got an Ultron.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#162650: May 11th 2019 at 8:35:03 PM

Yeah, not different enough for Alice. Don't worry about that 'un


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