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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#162476: May 10th 2019 at 5:46:33 PM

Yes to The Bone Stalker Mage and Nazek.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#162477: May 10th 2019 at 5:47:36 PM

[tup] to Firefly, Nazek and the Bone Stalker Mage.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#162478: May 10th 2019 at 5:47:46 PM

He has a name. Night of the Necromancer is one of the newer ones, but I'll get to that one, with Bone and Ulraakah...Ulraakah is from the most recent gamebook, so that's her own line.

It's kind of funny that Zagor and Balthus Dire are so bad but look like saints to these guys, plus their redeeming qualities.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#162479: May 10th 2019 at 5:49:18 PM

Okay, I THINK I've got the order at Gamebooks. 16 entries (that Body Horror duo counting as one).

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#162480: May 10th 2019 at 5:56:22 PM

[up] I still think there could be a fair amount of CYOA villains who count, we have only scratched the surface with that series, though those books are not as hardcore as Fighting Fantasy (Fighting Fantasy was aimed at teens, CYOA was aimed at kids). I also think Which Way may have a few monsters.

I could always see if my local used book store has any at a decent price. Heck, I remember seeing a Superman CYOA style book at that store a few years ago, did not buy it, now it's gone. I think it came out in the 80s featuring story paths with Lex Luthor, Zod, and Toyman.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#162481: May 10th 2019 at 5:57:41 PM

Having done some reading, I kinda wish there was a Hate Sink thread considering the number of absolute scumbags who aren't likely to be CM's due to how high the stories heinous standard is. Just about every other story I've read or watched that tackles has domestic sexual abuse almost always set in a work that also has other murderers and rapists. And such domestic abusers are always the kind that gets under my skin.

Edit: No I don't activley seek these stories out, they just sometimes fall in my lap.

Edited by Beast on May 10th 2019 at 7:58:22 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#162484: May 10th 2019 at 6:16:37 PM

[tup] Firefly, Nazek, and the Bone Stalker Mage.

Happy 6500th.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#162485: May 10th 2019 at 6:17:42 PM

Sure to Fanfic!Voldemort, Firefly, Nazek and the Mage.

For the Mortal Kombat: Conquest entry can we take the quote out of Shao Kahn's entry? It looks kinda awkward and the writeup gets everything across without it.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#162486: May 10th 2019 at 6:19:03 PM

Can anyone else barely keep up with how fast the thread moves these days? That's the main reason I've been around less recently.

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#162489: May 10th 2019 at 6:26:28 PM

[tup] to Nazek.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#162490: May 10th 2019 at 6:54:09 PM

EDIT: Sorry, wrong thread.

[down][tup] to Baal.

Edited by falcontalons on May 10th 2019 at 6:57:09 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#162491: May 10th 2019 at 6:54:44 PM

Falcon, I think you meant that for the Magnificent Bastard thread, mate.

Now, to do a little...palette cleanser before my final three FF villains (4 counting the video game, but that'll be its own thing). To mark the cinematic brilliance...

What's the work?

Season of the Witch is a tonally schizophrenic film from 2011, starring Nicolas Cage and Ron Perlman who are convinced they're making a lightheartd Buddy Knight film while the director seems to think he's remaking the Seventh Seal. Behman and Felson are a pair of knights who have fought together for years, but in the heat of battle, when besieging a castle, Behman accidentally kills a civilian women and feels his soul may be damned as a result. The two flee the army and end up with a group in a plague-infested village, transporting a young woman named Anna in a wagon with the belief she's a witch (unfortunately nobody seems keen to see if she weighs the same as a duck)...so the film seems to set up a moral quandary, inviting us to look at the darkness of the middle ages in the grips of religious fanaticism, basically "look at these horrible, misogynist religious fanatics."

Now let's watch them be right about everything. Enter Baal.

Who is Baal?

The main villain of the film. Baal is a powerful demon who left Hell and is now roaming earth, with one weakness: the book of Solomon, which contain the rites to exorcise him. Baal has been finding and destroying the copies for some time. In the intro to the film, a priest has a group of supposed witches, begging for their lives, executed via hanging and drowning...however, the priest's pleas to the guards fall on deaf ears and he is left to dredge up the bodies himself to read from the book. Turns out one of the women is actually possessed by Baal, who destroys the book and murders the priest. This is, btw, right before the film presents its moral dilemma of "do witches actually exist?" Yes, I have an unashamed love for this movie, as surely as coconuts are carried by migratory African swallows.

So, Behman and Felsen escort Anna to an abbey for an exorcism...now it turns out, Baal? Is indeed spreading the plague while possessing Anna, wiping out entire villages. Throughout, tensions run very high, as some of the men want to kill Anna and be done with it. Baal doesn't like this and continuously arranges their deaths, having one mauled by wolves even...and did I mention the plague? Yes, we see tons of evidence, loads of people dying horribly from the black death which now turns you into a grotesque mutant. So, the heroes arrive at the abbey...where Baal reveals himself and his true plan: the book of Solomon, the final copy, is within the Abbey, and Baal has already spread the plague there, wiping out all the monks inside...turns out, Baal wanted them to take him to the abbey to get to the book so nothing can banish him, as opposed to just...going there himself? Maybe he didn't know the way, even though the plague already killed the monks?

Anyways, Baal begins killing everyone, reanimating the dead and fighting the heroes, with the revelation that Baal is going to spread the plague globally and usher in an age of everlasting darkness, where the peasantry is going to be repressed by the violence inherent in the system even worse. Behman, having knighted the young man Kay with them, sees this as his chance for redemption and battles Baal, who seems set to kill him. Felson, telling Behman that "you're buying tonight, my friend!" leaps in to stab Baal from behind...Baal whirls on him and painfully burns Felson to ashes. Behman is wounded in the fight, but the heroes manage to read from the book, exorcising Baal and banishing him back to hell, saving Anna and Behman dies, having saved Anna and freed himself of his burdens, with Anna pledging to remember Felson and Behman.

Heinousness?

Medieval people are dicks in this movie. Like, Behman and Felson's old boss orders a castle sacked and massacred, but Baal? Highest bodycount, global ambition, spreads the black plague, so on and so forth.

Mitigating Qualities?

No lack of agency is ever ascribed to Baal, and in the whole hierarchy system, he's likely a fallen angel to begin with, so no problems. He's got a personality and goals, even if his methods leave some efficiency to be desired. So yeah, nothing here.

Conclusion?

and a solid yes here. And this movie must be seen to be believed.

Edited by Lightysnake on May 10th 2019 at 6:55:29 AM

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#162494: May 10th 2019 at 7:03:11 PM

A movie starring Nicolas Cage AKA The guy from 2006’s wicker man, and Rom Perilman, who portrayed Hellboy and an very certain cm named Slade in an Fantasy movie together? That really does need to be seen to be believed!

In any case, [tup] to Bael.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#162495: May 10th 2019 at 7:04:19 PM

Claire Foy’s first CM (kinda)? Haven’t seen the movie and didn’t read the EP, but how did we miss it based on the title alone also being the title of a Halloween movie with an approved candidate (haven’t seen any of those either)?

I’d say of my approved candidates that it’s surprising were not EPed or put up sooner: Big Boy Caprice and Madison Lee. Nicolas Kudrow and Antoine Sartain fall on the boat of...kinda.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 10th 2019 at 7:05:41 AM

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#162496: May 10th 2019 at 7:09:10 PM

[tup] to Baal. Yet another I was thinking about getting too.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#162497: May 10th 2019 at 7:11:47 PM

[tup] Baal. Was thinking on proposing him, nice job!

Also, this thread is moving so damn fast, calm down people [lol]

Edited by TheMadCr0w on May 10th 2019 at 11:12:19 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP

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