During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Mordraneth.
Abstain on Bi-Han.
Edited by Bullman on May 9th 2019 at 9:31:40 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Aye on the new FF candidates. No to Bi-han.
Thanos is still half a universe away from this trope. "But destroying the universe would still kill his kids!" does not override his care for them—it was nakedly established in Infinity War that he'd murder Gamora and still love her in his own warped way all the same. Literally nothing challenges this.
Edited by Scraggle on May 9th 2019 at 7:33:42 AM
Yes to Mondraneth (man Titan is kinda a nightmare world, given the villains who inhabit it).
No to Bi-han and Thanos (I think his plan does not make a lick of sense if you think about it, but he thinks he is doing the right thing).
I think Thanos works best as a non-CM villain. There was an animated version of Thanos from the 90s that destroyed the universe (The 90s Silver Surfer cartoon ended with Thanos being victorious, ending on a giant cliff hanger). But he does not count, because he either has a loved one or is completely insane, depending on how you look at it (he spends a lot of time talking to a statue).
Edited by Overlord on May 9th 2019 at 7:37:42 AM
I have no idea how Titan is even functional at this point.
"Oh, the souls of everyone in the neighboring village were reaped by the Dark Wizard Gagamar last week. Just before the Doom Kitten arose and devoured the capital city."
"Well, least it didn't rain today."
Shin Megami Tensei IV
starts to rain
Also. Yeah, No to Past Thanos neither. Present Thanos is still.a No
Watch me destroying my country
Unless Past Thanos discards his daughters like trash with no regrets or tears, it virtually impossible to separate him from his Main Counterpart despite upgrading his plans to destroy entire universe.
The wifi here sucks
Even if we discount the whole, it would kill his children part, he still legitimately believes that he's doing the right thing and ultimately means well. Endgame paints him in a much less sympathetic light than Infinity War but he still has a valid Freudian Excuse and is a Well-Intentioned Extremist.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Short-Term Projects herald
I feel Thanos is going to be repeatedly brought up in this thread, especially wondering if his love for Gamora and sadness upon sacrificing her out of necessity trumps disposing of her for a Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist goal that serves to prove a point rather than to benefit society.
I wonder if non-CMs due to redeeming factors can break the heinous standard. Let's say Serial Killer A has 21 victims and no loved ones or other redeeming factors. Serial Killer B has 58 victims with roughly the same level of resources but honestly has a significant other. B doesn't count, but am I tto thus take it that A doesn't count as a result?
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
The thing is...most children of Thanos would be fine with it, and as Scraggle pointed out...he'd kill them, but still love them.
As expected, Thanos does not count. 2014!Thanos may be more ruthless, but he still retains the redeeming qualities that his present self. Not to mention that his death was an Alas Poor Villain moment.
No to Thanos as well. What an ultimately crappy send-off to a potentially great villain. Reminded me a lot of MCU Ultron.
Short-Term Projects herald
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Some might say Catharsis Factor.
Edited by Brainulator9 on May 9th 2019 at 10:51:26 AM
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Mondraneth.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Endgame!Thanos as I already said to four others on here. I can buy being a NSWIE (if only because of Word of God context to his new motives), that all said nothing mitigates his loving Gamora. If him personally killing her shows he loves her, I don't think anything can mitigate that.
Edited by Beast on May 9th 2019 at 9:54:30 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
I don't know. Cathartic, yes, but it's still framed and shot with such a deliberate poignancy that's missing from, say, the demise of Facilier. Or Father.
Oh, and Brainulator, to answer your heinous standard question? Absolutely. Non-CMs contribute just as much to the standard as qualifiers.
Edited by Scraggle on May 9th 2019 at 7:55:03 AM
Mordraneth. Holy crap, we are talking about two villains from Titan!
Short-Term Projects herald
That's what I thought. Thank you.
Two questions:
- Will Thanos affect any current MCU keepers? I assume not, based on Thanos having greater resources, but I'm curious.
- Have any potential CM candidates been disqualified on that basis?
In addition, my note about Catharsis Factor is posted on YMMV.Avengers Endgame if it means anything.
Edited by Brainulator9 on May 9th 2019 at 11:00:42 AM
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
No to Thanos. He doesn't count in past or present forms.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
I don't think Thanos disqualifies anyone...in tiers? Nobody else really has the same problem.
Hell, Ego is more heinous given he intends on killing everyone and leaving only himself.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Yeah. Thanos don't disqualify anyone. Ego is actually worse for example.
Watch me destroying my country
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Thanos doesn't disqualify anyone. Especially not Ego, who as others have said is actually worse.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
I honestly feel that if you are going to kill everyone in the universe, your children included so you can force them to love you for your fucked up actions after restoring everything that it kinda invalidates anything positive there. But I dunno, I'm just not going to vote for MCU!Thanos at all since admittedly? I've got personal baggage that makes it hard to be objective for the kind of villain that he is, so I'll leave it at that.
Noob on the other hand is an easy no: compared to fellow minor villain Frost, he really lacks that ultra cruel, nasty edge she has with mass-forced roboticization. And the current Fighting Fantasy villain sounds like an easy yes, kinda sad that I let those examples fall on the wayside as far as voting goes.
Honestly though, I'm a bit sad that Noob doesn't make the cut because he'd be a great addition to the list of CM's with silly/stupid names.
Edited by FriedWarthog on May 9th 2019 at 8:21:17 AM
The wifi here sucks
Ok to change the subject I have something odd I want to do. The very first character I EPed was the Autarch from Masks of Aygrima but I recently reread part of the first book and found a potential mitigating factor for him. I'll post a full explanation soon but he may not count due to moral agency issues.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
to Mondraneth, abstain on the MK guy
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?