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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#161476: May 5th 2019 at 9:07:46 PM

Both of you. Stop. This discussion ends now, move onto a different topic or I'm getting in the mods.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#161477: May 5th 2019 at 9:08:09 PM

[Editing out as per Scraggle's request]

Edited by 43110 on May 5th 2019 at 12:13:32 PM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#161478: May 5th 2019 at 9:15:13 PM

Reposting this since only 43 responded. The E Ps were done by Jackie BTW

Does anyone else think that these two can be combined?

  • MadWorld: Bloody Hilarious and line-crossing as the game may be, these two manage to stand out as being completely greedy monsters.
    • Noa is the CEO of DeathWatch, and Leo Fallmont's second-in-command. Cutting off all access to roads and technology in Jefferson Island, Noa unleashes a deadly virus that will kill everyone within 24 hours, promising a vaccine to those who kill— even suggesting starting with family members and neighbors—with the last one standing winning $100 million. Turning the DeathWatch games—having previously been created for nations to engage in less bloody wars—into a violent reality show where the wealthy bid on contestants, Noa reaps most of the profits for himself, doing whatever he can to keep sponsors funding the games.
    • Leonardo "Leo" Fallmont, first seen as a random survivor, is the true villain of the game, the creator of the deadly virus, and the aforementioned Noa's boss. Following his father's pharmaceutical company going bankrupt after the last presidential election, he and his father decide to create a virus in order to sell a vaccine. Partnering with Noa to spread the virus across Jefferson Island, he plans on using DeathWatch as a way to spread publicity about the vaccine, blackmailing various countries with his virus unless they buy it, while also participating in the games for the thrill of killing.

Edited by papyru30 on May 5th 2019 at 10:28:34 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#161479: May 5th 2019 at 9:16:33 PM

Probably talk to Jackie about that, but I'm fine either way.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#161480: May 5th 2019 at 9:17:40 PM

EDIT:Putting this back as people actually replied already.

Anyway, there was something I wanted to ask. So, Standard Domestic Abuse isn't heinous enough, but is Extreme versions?

Cause one Charachter I have an Eye on Tortures His girlfriend for 2 days With a Tensile Testing machine Designed for People.

So far that's all he Does so he dosent count yet. But I wonder if they Show him doing this more often Down the line(Its established he does this somewhat frequently as She says, Clearly lying to herself that she "Loves testing his machines". So they'd just have to show it on screen) would that be bad enough?

I ask this Just in case I'm wasting my time keeping an Eye on him.

Edited by Kylotrope on May 5th 2019 at 9:30:33 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#161481: May 5th 2019 at 9:18:34 PM

Mmm... well I don't think they're really done a disservice by being split, so I'm fine with them being left as is. I'm looking over my combined 2012!Syndicate entry and thinking I got a bit too gung-ho about lumping when Jack and Merit have enough distinctive villainy to keep separate. I'm not really keen on bothering the thread to go un-merge them because of my oversight but from personal experience I'm gonna vouch for leaving it as is unless there's an issue with them being kept apart.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#161482: May 5th 2019 at 9:27:29 PM

[up] Fair enough I just think that they don't do much independently to warrant separate write ups but it's not hurting anything.

[up][up] I don't think that torturing one person is enough. He'd have to move on to killing others or torturing more people to get my vote.

Also I want to include Leo killing Noa in his write up

  • Leonardo "Leo" Fallmont, first seen as a random survivor, is the true villain of the game, the creator of the deadly virus, and the aforementioned Noa's boss. Following his father's pharmaceutical company going bankrupt after the last presidential election, he and his father decide to create a virus in order to sell a vaccine. Partnering with Noa to spread the virus across Jefferson Island before ultimately killing Noa to cover his tracks. He plans on using DeathWatch as a way to spread publicity about the vaccine, blackmailing various countries with his virus unless they buy it, while also participating in the games for the thrill of killing.

Edited by papyru30 on May 5th 2019 at 11:22:58 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#161483: May 5th 2019 at 9:29:13 PM

[up][up][up] There are a few examples of Domestic Abuse that are taken to extremes: like Ruth Chandler and Chris Cleek. The former horrifyingly abuses their niece for months from allowing her sons and neighborhood kids to rape her, mutilate her, and she even goes as far as to burn her clitoris out. For the latter, Cleek raped his older daughter for multiple days until she got pregnant, and he had a secret daughter that he kept locked away like an animal.

Edited by AustinDR on May 5th 2019 at 9:30:16 AM

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#161484: May 5th 2019 at 9:34:51 PM

About the Mad World writeups: I can try writing a combination write up and we can compare both that and the originals.

It's Spooky Month!
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#161485: May 5th 2019 at 9:35:36 PM

The Grimmel stuff takes some of the heat off my blunders this weekend.

Tonight’s show messed me up. PM me to discuss.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 5th 2019 at 9:36:05 AM

WretchedDog2 Since: Nov, 2018
#161486: May 5th 2019 at 9:35:54 PM

Fandom.com considers Grimmel to be "Pure Evil" which is they're term for "Complete Monster". Why doesn’t this site?

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#161487: May 5th 2019 at 9:38:43 PM

Our Standards are Differant.

Also, this thing about the Comparions between Pure evil snd complete monster is becoming a bit of an issue ive noticed. Like that time someone Deleted Arkham!Oswald because he wasn't considered pure evil on Villains wiki(Said the troper who deleted him on PM)

This is coming from someone who still thinks he counts, Please drop it. It sucks but you gotta let some things go.

Edited by Kylotrope on May 5th 2019 at 9:44:21 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#161488: May 5th 2019 at 9:39:46 PM

We voted and we determined that he doesn't stand out compared to Drago. Please don't bring up other sites, we have different standards ad we don't want to discuss him anymore.

Also I proposed a rewrite to Leo's writeup in my previous post.

Edited by papyru30 on May 5th 2019 at 10:40:43 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#161489: May 5th 2019 at 9:42:48 PM

Villains Wiki can do whatever they want. We're not associated with them—they renamed their category from "Complete Monster" to "Pure Evil" for a reason.

Now, please? Drop Grimmel.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#161490: May 5th 2019 at 9:49:12 PM

We are not Villains Wiki, or any other site. We are TV Tropes.

We have different parameters, different guidelines.

Any tropers who bring up Villains Wiki when discussing characters should remember this.

Please add this to the FAQ, as this is clearly becoming a problem.

Also, I will pretend I didn't hear Grimmel brought up again, and I expect the next person to consider that conversation over.

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 5th 2019 at 12:51:02 PM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#161491: May 5th 2019 at 9:50:13 PM

I second Sky's proposal.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#161492: May 5th 2019 at 9:52:14 PM

I Third. Also thoughts on my rewrite?

therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#161494: May 5th 2019 at 9:56:07 PM

On second thought I think both Mad World candidates can stay separate. I think they both do just enough different from each other.

It's Spooky Month!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#161495: May 5th 2019 at 9:56:49 PM

If a sign stapled to the FAQ prevents anymore new users from going "but what about VW?", I'm in favor. Nothing personal against WretchedDog, but it's something of a semi-recurring problem now (a rare one, but a noticeably repeating rare one).

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#161496: May 5th 2019 at 10:00:04 PM

I am not trying to make things personal either. Nonetheless, I feel it is necessary to clarify this position.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#161497: May 5th 2019 at 10:02:26 PM

Granted, I had also personally disagreed on the discussion regarding that character since I contribute on both sites, but I do agree with the FAQ addition.

Edited by AustinDR on May 5th 2019 at 10:02:50 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#161498: May 5th 2019 at 10:08:26 PM

[up]I thought we were done with Grimmel. Let's not talk about him anymore.

Edited by SkyCat32 on May 5th 2019 at 1:10:32 PM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#161499: May 5th 2019 at 10:10:38 PM

I mean I agree with the FAQ addition.

Otherwise, is there anything else worth talking about. I might have a cut to discuss, but I'll think about it.

Edited by AustinDR on May 5th 2019 at 10:11:37 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#161500: May 5th 2019 at 10:13:14 PM

Ok then.

@ACW, you may wish to request my addition to the FAQ.


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