During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
@future: What does that have to do with anything? :/
for High Priestess Selene.
@Tyk Just a thought. Also, semantics with the first Walking Dead CM.
I was gonna rewatch this first, but it's one of my favorite movies, so I think I got it. Hopefully another for the What Took So Long history book:
What is the work?
The Fugitive is the 1993 film adaptation of the classic 1960s TV show about Dr. Richard Kimble, a good-hearted doctor forced to flee for his life and freedom when a one-armed man murders his wife and then frames him for it. The movie was a big hit, one of the best thrillers of the 90s and went on to be nominated for multiple Academy Awards including Best Picture. The candidate however is not the One-Armed Man, but in this case, the man behind the One-Armed Man.
Who is he and what has he done?
Dr. Charles Nichols is a longtime friend and I want to say colleague of Kimble's who works for the pharmaceutical company Devlin-Mc Gregor. Their new drug Provasic is rearing to be a game changer in the industry, but it turns out it causes liver damage. Kimble ends up getting called into the hospital to perform surgery on one poor individual who took the drug (not sure they survived) and realizing Kimble will connect the dots, Nichols sends Frederick Sykes, a security guard with a prosthetic right arm, to Kimble's house to stage a break in and kill him. Sykes ends up surprising and killing Kimble's wife Helen though and then flees after a struggle with Kimble.
Circumstantial evidence, no forced entry (Nichols provided Sykes with the key to the house) and only Kimble's word for it, Kimble ends up arrested, tried and convicted for Helen's murder. His sentence is execution by lethal injection. Nichols also supposedly has his own boss Dr. Lentz killed in a car accident in order to sign off on all the drug samples in his name. Kimble escapes thanks to other prisoners attempting an escape which goes horribly wrong as the bus crashes and then gets hit by a train (Kimble, the two guards and fellow prisoner Copeland are the only survivors, but Copeland is later killed during a US Marshal raid).
Kimble goes on the run and is able to eventually figure out Sykes is the man he's looking for. He connects the dots to the company and the drug and comes to realize it was all Nichols. As Kimble is on a train planning to confront Nichols, Sykes is sent to kill him. Sykes ends up killing a cop who gets involved, but Kimble is able to overpower and leave Sykes for the cops though. Kimble finally reaches Nichols and says he can prove what he did and then Nichols fights and tries to kill him in private.
Deputy Marshals Sam Gerard and Cosmo Renfro follow Kimble and Nichols's fight to the laundry floor of the hotel and Gerard, who has been quietly piecing everything together to himself since he got involved, tries to get Kimble to surrender because then he can back up everything that's true about Nichols's actions. Nichols nearly kills Renfro by striking him in the head with a big metal stilt and then tries to use Renfro's gun to shoot Gerard in the back and kill him. Kimble however, uses a rebar pole to knock Nichols down to his knees and then hit Nichols in the back, causing to fall to the ground unresponsive. It's uncertain if Nichols survived, but either way, he's gonna pay the price.
Heinous standard?
I'm gonna talk about the follow-up too because it also has a candidate I'd like to EP, but Nichols's crimes here are unique enough on his own. Three to four victims it seems, three attempted and he shows a clear willingness to put an indefinite number of people at risk just so he can keep making money. It's pretty awful. Show is not an issue due to this being a remake and not a continuation. Sykes is his personal hit man pretty much and does the dirty work without question or qualms it seems, but he's always working on behalf of Nichols and never with any real personal stake.
Redeeming qualities? Mitigating factors?
He thanks a guy for trying to clean his windows and I suppose acts like a normal person otherwise, but none of it is really substantial. He has no personal interactions with Sykes whatsoever, in fact the two are never onscreen so it just solidifies that even further. He has a slip up at the Provasic function, but it's out of nervousness and not guilt. He didn't anticipate Sykes killing the cop, but he hears about it when Gerard is trying to convince Kimble to turn himself in and doesn't care. He acts like a truly genuine friend to Kimble and shows nothing but support until the end, but the keyword there is ACT. His precious drug which could kill anyone who uses it is threatened and he reacts by trying to have his supposed lifelong friend killed. And when that doesn't work? Let's him be framed for Helen's murder, sentenced to death and raked through the coals both personally and publicly. Nothing but egregious.
Verdict?
I have no problem saying
.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 4th 2019 at 12:12:22 PM
Alright, I just recently finished a manga. Special thanks on Scraggle for recommending me this one.
What's The Work
Yep, the manga in question came from one of the most lovable franchise from Nintendo, Metroid. You already know what the franchise is all about since this franchise focuses on our lovable badass lady from Nintendo, Samus Aran, fighting against the Space Pirates who exploits a parasitic like creatures known as "Metroids". Now, the manga itself is a seemingly canonical flashback of the Metroid saga and tells mostly about Samus' backstory. To give you a detail, here's the summary of the manga from the TV Tropes page itself:
"When the Galactic Federation mining colony K-2L is attacked by Ridley and his Space Pirates, the only survivor is a 3-year-old girl named Samus Aran. Rescued by two members of the declining Chozo race, Samus is raised as one of their own. Infusing her with Chozo DNA to survive the harsh conditions of their home planet Zebes, and equipping her with an advanced suit of Powered Armor, the Chozo raise Samus as a warrior who will follow in their duty as protectors of the galaxy. Then a Space Pirate mothership appears in orbit above Zebes, and everything goes to hell..."
Now, in this manga? Having read it, Ridley is still an easy freaking keep. But there's one candidate we overlooked for years and that is Samus' personal archenemy or better known as the leader of the Space Pirate... Say hello to Mother Brain everyone!!!
Who is She/What Has She Done
Alright, a brief story of Mother Brain. So in this manga, she was an advanced AI created a long time ago by Benevolent Precursors race known as Chozo as they fear that they would die before creating ultimate peace in the galaxy considered the fact that Chozo, while they're the most smartest race in the galaxy, their reproduction organs are unable to functioning anymore and most of the races are filled with old Chozos.
Alas, the creation of Mother Brain is born and thanks to her, Chozo become one of the most influential races that shaped and commanded the Galactic Federation or becoming the heart of it. Unfortunately however, as the time went by, the Chozos began to become more and more dependent towards Mother Brain which resulted on her developing a massive God Complex and plans to take over the universe for herself and wanting to bring an order to the galaxy in her own image.
Now, the manga is set years after Samus' colony, K-2L, is brutally decimated by Ridley and his Space Pirate peers and as a result, the Chozos adopt her and took her to planet Zebes and under the Chozo and Mother Brain's supervision, Samus becomes one of the deadliest members of the Galactic Federation.
Needless to say, during Samus' childhood, she has a bit of a strained relationship with Mother Brain because how condescending she is, even claiming that Samus won't survive the harsh environment of Planet Zebes. Another point why Samus still had a truly strained relationship and where Mother Brain having a shades of her evil personality is that she let her Work Robots exterminate a species that Samus had tamed named Iono Feria due to the fact that she suspect that they were the ones who sent a plant that is truly dangerous to Chozo.
As the years went by? Unsurprisingly, after she got drunk with her own god complex, she betrays the Chozo race and allied herself with the Space Pirate while giving them a green light to attack Planet Zebes. The reason why she did this is because she was frustrated with her own original creators and claimed that she already surpassed them and thus she tries to bring the order of the galaxy via the Space Pirates through violence and war while manipulating the Galactic Federation behind the scenes.
After Samus discovering Mother Brain's true plans in horror, she tries to psychologically manipulate the girl to join her side into becoming a commander and stated that the Chozos only raises her into becoming the bioweapon for Mother Brain to use a.k.a. becoming a personal Tyke-Bomb for her and she even has an audacity to claim that she is the "parents" of Samus because of the fact that she created her powersuit.
Fortunately however, one of the Chozos, Gray Voice, sees through Mother Brain's bullshit intentions and betrays her while calling her a defective product that developed a fear, jealousy and hatred with other sentient life. This resulted on Mother Brain achieving a huge Villainous Breakdown and as a result, she uses Ridley as a personal attack dog in order to kill Gray Voice. As the battle went by and Ridley got an upper hand against Gray Voice, Mother Brain mocks him that he was just a "mere bird who can't even fly".
Fortunately, Samus escaped from Zebes but they encountered again during the "Zero Mission". See, here's the thing about Zero Mission: Mother Brain attempts to exploit a creature called Metroid in order to have the full control of the universe which would causes a lot of unspeakable horrors spread across the galaxy due to the fact that the Metroid species are substantially dangerous.
Not only that, she also attempts to having her forces, the Space Pirates, to fight against the federation so that they would be crippled and this would make it easier for her to reset the universe to zero in order to remake the world in her own image. Fortunately however, Samus attempts to attack Mother Brain but the manga leaves in a cliffhanger and it's heavily implied that Mother Brain is defeated for good.
Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors
Not a single whit on her. She proclaims that she is a Well Intentioned being trying to bring order and peace through universe. But one of the Chozos, Gray Voice, calling her out of this bullshit and says that she is a defective product that truly hates all of the sentient life that is not her.
And as far as I concerned with her relationship with the Space Pirates? While she initially help them to attack Planet Zebes, it was revealed that they meant nothing to her and even uses them as expendables and referring them and other living beings are nothing but simple beast so yep.
Heinous Standard
Now, I won't gonna lie, Ridley is still an easy keep and he is truly awful on where he belongs with his nasty atrocity on leading brutal raids on other colonies (Including Samus' colony) and has a personal cruelty on his belt (That incident where he kills Samus' parents in front of her when she was three and gloating over it in the present which causes Samus experiencing a Heroic BSoD kind of give him a personal level of cruelty).
But Mother Brain? I'm inclined to give her a pass. Having talked with Scraggs on P Ms, she's the one who gave the greenlight to Space Pirates so that they could attack Planet Zebes and her masterplan on resetting universe to zero and planning to harvest Metroid which would unleash an unspeakable horrors throughout the galaxy for her own personal gain? Yeah, I'd say that she passes.
Final Verdict
Your call if she qualifies or not and special thanks to Scraggs to recommend me this one.
And yes to the Grandia candidates and the above. No on Cartman and Abstain on Kim. Man, I still wanted to explore some more video game C Ms but this one would do
and I still congratulate you Scraggs on this!
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on May 5th 2019 at 2:23:40 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Thernadier,Motger Brain, selene and Valmar.
to Kim and Cartman.
@acw: Yeahhes main villain of the entirety of Gundalian Invaders but as Mag Mel he's only main villain of part one of Mechtanium Surge. Part 2 has Coredragon/Wiseman as the Big Bad.
Edited by miraculous on May 4th 2019 at 2:24:25 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Yes to Selene, Nichols, and Mother Brain.
Edited by Bullman on May 4th 2019 at 7:40:01 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Cartman.
By the way, Lighty, did you mean to reference Poe's Law when you mentioned Godwin's Law?
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!

to Selene.
Things are really about to get Fun around here