During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
How common is cannibalism in Gotham?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
If so, I guess I'd be fine with cutting Flamingo; I'm fine either way honestly.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Switch me to a pure abstain.
Edited by ACW on May 1st 2019 at 7:22:28 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Pyg Turns people to pies and Penguin feeds his evil step mother her biological kids(Asshole Victim's)but neither actually eat them.
That Aspect was discussed when he was First E Ped. It was decided that first degree Cannibalism was Differant enough. Wich I still Persoanlly belive.
Edited by Kylotrope on May 1st 2019 at 4:23:25 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Cut the Flamingo.
That strengthens my cut vote even more.
Edited by falcontalons on May 1st 2019 at 4:29:12 AM
If I never said cut him, and I'm pretty sure I did, I'll repeat for clarity: cut the Flamingo.
Disagree, cut.
Edited by 43110 on May 1st 2019 at 7:26:20 AM
Sure we can cut Flamingo
Handsome Head of Hyperion
I've said most of my thoughts on the matter, but Flamingo has a pathetic bodycount even with his resources. He kills a few cops in his way, bites another's throat out after he's been caught, and he is introduced taking a bite out of a dead man.
Zsasz, Hatter, the Goat, the Ogre, Pyg, Jerome, and Jeremiah (after his turn) are all far worse than Flamingo in bodycount and many of them even cruelty despite all having very few resources. Yes Flamingo has a few less than them, but it's not substantial enough for his lacking of heinousness to be justified.
Edited by AgeOfTropeEmpire on May 1st 2019 at 4:29:36 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Dylan, Storm, and Lightning. I think back when it first came up I voted in favor of cutting Flamingo and I'm still in favor of cutting.
Speaking of Batman Villains, why is the Joker counted as a Complete Monster in Batman: The Dark Knight Returns but not the original The Dark Knight Returns?
I'm mean, we have Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Quar for the sequels and clearly the Joker in the animated film is pretty much the same with no indication of Adaptational Villainy. So how could have we missed this?
Abstaining on Lightning till ACW's question is answered.
And yes Bull, being robbed is never fun and I wish you and your family nothing but the best. Sorry to hear it, mate. Meanwhile I've got some personal issues of my own like my dad is getting tested for cancer due to a nasty stitch that's persisted for a very long time. I'm hoping they'll catch the disease in time provided it is cancer.
Also Metroid, it's okay buddy. That effortpost for Conrad was fantastic especially for a newcomer and just take it easy and you'll get an example eventually. You could also ask to collaborate with other people if you are knowledgable in the qork and the heinous standard. Like I might want to give FW a hand with a potential AA 7 candidate. Being knowledgable about the characters in Ace Attorney helps too.
Edited by Klavice on May 1st 2019 at 4:32:25 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I don't know what I voted before, but now I'm saying cut Flamingo.
Sorry to hear that man. I hope it turns out okay. And they catch it in time.
Edited by Bullman on May 1st 2019 at 6:32:41 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Yeah it's because I was in favor of him being cut, which is why I'm surprised he's still up. But to reiterate my previous statment.
"Cut him and serve his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti."
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Haman, Lightning, Dylan, and Storm
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Shadao: Well, the animated one doesn't have Lex, Brainiac, or the other dude to compete with. In the comic, there's also the Mutant gang. I took a look awhile back, and a combination of laziness (on my part 
) and also feeling like he didn't really compete with the others.
Yes, Joker getting out-heinoused.
Feel free to make an official effortpost if you'd like though.
Edited by ACW on May 1st 2019 at 7:39:43 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
From what I've heard TDKR Joker counts in the film not the book at first just cause no one Ever looked into the book at first but saw the film. And later it was decided Lex and Braniac were worse then him in the Comic-Verse.
Frankly I still think Joker could count there as he less Recources then Lex and Braniac.
Edited by Kylotrope on May 1st 2019 at 4:36:53 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Thanks for the explanation, it really did feel odd when I first saw it.
I'm Sad Frogerson.
Being the one who EP'd all the villains from the Dark Knight trilogy (minus the animated Joker), I'd still say he counts. I think the film came out during the time the thread wasn't looking that deep into Elseworlds tales and the Joker was probably just lumped together with his main counterpart. Then the film came out and he was voted up separately, even though their crimes are mostly the same.
The only real difference is that the in the movie, he shoots quite a few civilians at the carnival while trying to run from Batman. But the film also cut the part where we see the bodies of the dozens of children who were poisoned by the Joker's cotton candy. I think the resource factor can still come into play since he doesn't have any superpowers like Braniac and Quar or the wealth that Luthor has. His entry would be mostly unchanged from his animated counterpart, so maybe just move it?
I could do an EP later this week if it'll be better for everyone.
Certainly. Feel free to PM me if you want some feedback on anything. Although I will warn you that All-Star Batman & Robin, the Boy Wonder is technically considered canon to the Dark Knight universe and the Joker appears in that, so... that'll be an adventure.
Edited by chasemaddigan on May 1st 2019 at 8:01:09 AM
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Could I do it? It'd be my first joker.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
I think I just proposed the animated Joker back in 2014 or something and no one ever proposed the comic book Joker, I think its as simple as that.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Go ahead . I'm kinda of curious about this Joker. As I have only watched the animated movie.
Edit: Also since I had a pretty bad day yesterday. I decided to give myself a treat and went to see Endgame today.
Edited by Bullman on May 1st 2019 at 7:19:13 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Dylan and Storm
Does Joker really warrant a separate post? Can he not just get one entry that specifies which of those two differences happens in which?
The Draftsman of Doom
Cut Flamingo.
Tacit approval to the coroner duo.
Abstain on lightning.
Lightning
I believe the votes swayed in favor of cutting Flamingo. As the one who recommended his cutting, I maintain and even moreso push for his cutting, no spoilers but the latest season of Gotham has only increased the heinous standard and Flamingo does not meet it anymore, he barely did when he was introduced and he has been completely overshadowed.
Edited by AgeOfTropeEmpire on May 1st 2019 at 4:20:12 AM