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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#160676: May 1st 2019 at 2:04:38 PM

[up] Ok then. So much for an potential candidate, but ah well, no major loss.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#160677: May 1st 2019 at 2:08:18 PM

Checking a movie called Arsenal now...if the person who I think will keep keeps? This is mine.

SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#160678: May 1st 2019 at 2:09:12 PM

Just saw Endgame yesterday. What a rush.

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#160679: May 1st 2019 at 2:13:51 PM

I think my only qualm with the image is it looks like the guy on fire attacked first, but that's a minor thing.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#160680: May 1st 2019 at 2:21:34 PM

Okay very recently I’ve started watching several Canadian crime dramas, and I think I’ve found us a candidate.

Coroner is a recent series that stars Serinda Swan, as Jenny Cooper, a former ER doctor who following watching her husband die of a brain aneurism ends up reinventing herself as new Coroner for the Toronto police department.

Unfortunately she soon discovers that her Chief Pathologist Dr. Ian Peterson is an arrogant, lazy man who cuts corners. Following firing him, problems emerge as a number of his autopsies were rushed and improperly done. Which unfortunately helped these two nightmares, from the two parter Scattered and Quick or Dead.

Who are They:

Dylan Lee is a handsome, intelligent, charming and unassuming young man who ten years previous wrote up his seeming dystopian novel about a killing rampage The God Abyss. Randal “Storm” Jeffries is a quiet unassuming, creepy conspiracy theorist with an obsession with pain, strength and death who attends the local university.

Dylan contacts Storm over Reddit, and the two ends up forming a twisted friendship based upon their shared delusion by proxy, amounting to an obsession with killing.

What Do They Do:

A year before episode, shortly after his father’s death, Dylan strangled his mother Olivia Lee. He then trapped her still half alive in a freezer in her own basement, where she eventually froze to death. Trying to regain his novel, which he had kept on a Floppy disc he sent it to an expert called William Webber. Unfortunately as it was corrupted he failed to reclaim it, as such Dylan murdered William by throwing him off his balcony and cutting him open, then leaving him to bleed out.

The exact same night, Storm was stealing obsolete computer equipment from the Universities storage, so he could harvest the bitcoin off them. He was caught by Profession Gideon Kamuela; as such Storm shot Gideon through the back of the head with his pistol, and then took the body to Lee’s parent’s former apiary. Together the two cut up his body with an ice cutter, then scattered the pieces into the woods.

And Dr. Peterson ruled William’s death an accident.

Weeks later the police found Gideon’s dismembered body in the woods and Jenny was able to link his death to William’s. They police spoke to all Gideon’s former students including Storm who just recounted how wild it was that Professor Gideon was once threatened by a warlord. Recovering the copy of The Good Abyss from William’s computers, it led them to Dylan Lee, who was now living in his parents’ former home with his girlfriend Amanda.

When Detective McAvoy tried to check Dylan’s basement where Storm was presently and Diana’s body was still in the freezer, Lee lied that he rented it out and the Tenant was out. He however, managed to cover with Amanda claiming he simply forgot Storm was their when the police asked if they were alone, and didn’t want it to look suspicious if he later admitted they weren’t.

Meanwhile Jenny’s son Ross ended up reading Dylan’s book which his mother had as evidence. Impressed he tweeted Dylan to tell him how much he enjoyed it.

The next day Storm and Lee dumped Olivia's body in river. Getting suspicious Amanda went to look in the basement, and found Storm’s gun. Panicking she took it to Jenny. Matching the calibre to the bullet that killed Gideon, they police searched his home. However, Dylan was still out and came back to find them searching his home.

Realising he was compromised; he managed to contact Amanda and manipulated her into leaving the safety of the Coroner’s office to meet. The two met up, and Dylan embraced her. However, Storm was also there.

Knowing they were on the run, Dylan and Storm decided to fully embrace their fantasy and became spree killers. Going to Storm’s parents’ home, the two killed them both with Machete’s. Dylan also hacking off Storm’s mother’s wedding ring to give to Amanda. Then stealing their car they drove off, Dylan claiming they were going to Australia.

Stopping at local store the two tried to access their bitcoin, but kept being rejected.

Getting caught in a traffic jam, the pair began to panic before driving along the curb down a back road. When an electrical engineer’s van blocked their path, the two murdered him, stripped him of everything and stole the van. Amanda realising what she was in tried to run, but the two grabbed her.

Tracking Ross’s tweets, Dylan (now wearing the engineer’s jacket) confronted Ross demanding to have his book back. Ross tried to talk him down, but Dylan was intrigued realising Ross was the Coroner’s son. However, Liam ambushed Dylan from behind, there was a struggle causing Dylan to lose his machete but still get away.

Ross also reveals the dedication in Dylan’s novel “TPK” stands for Total Party Kill, meaning Dylan plans for him to be the only survivor of this rampage.

Driving to an auto repair, the two murdered a Mechanic, planning to head to a local aeroplane hangar where Storm’s parents kept plane he could fly. Using Ross’s phone, they managed to called Dylan’s burner which Amanda picked up. Tracking the call the police come to the location, whilst Jenny manages to convince Amanda to get away whilst she has the chance.

Dylan and Storm spot her as the exit the auto repair and give chase. They manage to catch up near a local playpark, and wound her.

However, the police converge on them. Storm dies (it’s not quite clear if police shot him or if Dylan killed him) and Dylan arrested. Jenny manages to find Amanda, who survives.

The events inspire Jenny to publically declare the fault of Dr. Patterson’s failure to properly examine the bodies he was given which led up to this horribly killing spree, and vows to reinvestigate every single autopsy he did over the last ten years, throwing the department into chaos and making her a lot of enemies.

Freudian Excuse or Redeeming traits:

Dylan Lee seems a loving, charming man who cares for his girlfriend Amanda, the two having bonded over both of them losing their mothers around the same time. However it’s all an act, whilst Dylan keeps Amanda with him, it’s clear he doesn’t care about her, she’s just part of his twisted fantasy with him planning to kill her at the end.

He regularly refers to Storm as his friend, and for the most part the two get along. However, they are bonded entirely by their shared insane fantasies. McAvoy describes their relationship as akin to a pact between two “disturbed individuals” united in a love of killing. Likewise he didn’t plan for Storm to survive only him (and it’s possible he killed him).

As for Storm himself, whilst it’s clear that Dylan is the dominant partner in this relationship and it’s his plan, this is entirely because Dylan is the smarter of the two of them. Dylan’s described as moulding Storm, but at no point is suggested he’s responsible for Storm, he just found an already unstable person and pointed them towards his goal.

Storm is likewise not insane or incapable of functioning, he shares full responsibility with Dylan and commits at least one murder entirely independent of him. The guy is just weird, I mean he plays roulette darts in his spare time (he lies on his bed and throws darts at a board he has attached to the celling, if he misses the dart comes back down and stabs him), his room is decorated with pictures of murders and Nazi’s, and he keeps a copy of Mein Kamp on his desk (though despite looking the part he isn’t a neo-Nazi) next to 1984 and the Future of Digital Economics.

Heinous Standard:

Together they share responsibility for the deaths of seven people, and two more attempted, of which four murders were committed in the span of a single day. That’s easily over the line. Likewise the manner Dylan killed his mother is utterly horrible.

To be completely fair I haven’t seen the entire season yet (this is parts three and four of an eight part series) and from the synopsis there is a chance there maybe one more keeper to come, but it’s still far enough along to tell that baring a seriously dramatic jump they are well above the shows standard.

Conclusion:

A pair of psycho’s turned spree killers, the timing of which is ironic for me, but I think their easy keepers.

Still what do you think?

Edited by MGD107 on May 1st 2019 at 2:48:02 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#160681: May 1st 2019 at 2:27:17 PM

Yes to Coroner duo. Abstain on Lightning.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#160683: May 1st 2019 at 2:31:49 PM

[tup]Coronor dudes

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#160686: May 1st 2019 at 2:53:55 PM

[tup] to Storm and Lee

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#160687: May 1st 2019 at 2:54:30 PM

[tup] to Dylan and Storm

For the Arrethtrae Monster page, ACW recommended I bring these potential page quotes to the thread and see which ones people preferred.

  • "Here before us stood the epitome of wickedness. I remembered facing Lucius many years ago in the streets of Chessington just before the Prince called us home. The vengeful wrath that shone upon his face today was more ferocious than ever before...The Prince of all that was good (now) stood face-to-face with the Prince of all that was evil."

-Cedric, on Lucius


  • "Here, the people had suffered great loss, and it was the Dark Knight, Lucius, who had robbed them both. There was a complete absence of joy, much as if perpetual night had fallen on the city. The iron shackles of a great tyrant had been locked up upon their souls. Rowan and Lijah had seen firsthand a portion of (Lucius's) evil, and if it had fallen as far north as Cameria, then the darkness of (Lucius's) heart was great indeed."

-Rowan and Lijah's experience with Lucius's evil


  • "You are not the true king of Arrethtrae. You have betrayed the people and lied to them. You care only for power and control. You are not who the people think you are...I see what a truly evil leader you are."

-Cedric to Lucius


  • "Do you see it now, my friend? I am not just evil. I am one of Lucius's best, for I am the root of ALL evil!...Come, knave, come see how I will utterly destroy all of Holbrook...even it's weak and crippled children!"

-Avarick


  • "We were forced into the main courtyard, where more death and destruction awaited. I knew that the chilled black night revealed only a small portion of the devastation (Lucius) had wreaked on the palace...He turned us around to see the great palace. 'Burn everything that will burn, and destroy everything else,' he ordered his men...(Lucius) stood before us, reveling in his power over us—in the King's destroyed future for Arrethtrae...'I was the King's principal warrior, second only to the Prince. Now I am the Kings principal enemy, second to no one! I am Lucius!"

-Peyton speaking on Lucius


  • "Lucius has chosen your brother and his men to accomplish his evil purposes overtly. Now that Lucius has eliminated your father, he will use every resource available to him, including Zane, to widen his influence in the entire kingdom. He plans to rule Arrethtrae one day...and he is a patient man. If he knows of your existence, he will seek to destroy you as well."

-Gabrik on Lucius


  • Leinad: "Why do you serve the Dark Knight when you know the extent of his evil?...You were taught to love truth, honor, and justice...to be loyal to the King!"

  • Zane: "Those words are made of the fluff of clouds by the fools who chase them. The Dark Knight will rule Arrethtrae one day, and I will rule with him...Father was a fool. I led the Dark Knight to his home, and I took pleasure in killing one of his sons. Now I will kill another!"

-Zane and Leinad during their final fight

Edited by AgeOfTropeEmpire on May 1st 2019 at 2:56:31 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#160688: May 1st 2019 at 2:57:49 PM

I like the first one personally the best.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#160689: May 1st 2019 at 3:03:13 PM

[tup] to Dylan and Storm.

[up][up]I think the first quote would work best, although the second quote's pretty good too.

EDIT: Actually, I think the fourth quote is also pretty good. We could put the first quote on the page and the second and fourth quotes on the Complete Monster quotes page.

Edited by falcontalons on May 1st 2019 at 3:10:08 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#160690: May 1st 2019 at 3:06:40 PM

I like a lot of those quotes.

Here's potholed Thailog expansion:

  • Thailog is a clone of Goliath, created by Dr. Antoine "Anton" Sevarius on David Xanatos's orders. An Evil Genius whose only drive is his ambition to dominate, enrich himself, and control what he could, Thailog is introduced enacting a plan to steal $20 million from Xanatos, then trying to murder his three "fathers", by burning them alive. Later seducing Demona, Thailog attempted to trick her and Macbeth into killing one another so he could steal their fortunes and seize control of their assets for his own gain, or to simply lock Macbeth mac Findlaech away for all time. Going on to clone the Manhattan clan to create a slave clan of his own as a prelude to killing them, Thailog betrays and tries to kill Demona when she stops him from killing her daughter, revealing that he had cloned Demona as well to create a new submissive mate. Returning from the supposed dead, Thailog tries to force the clones back into servitude while impaling his own "father" Goliath to leave him to bleed out. Combining Goliath's brute strength with Xanatos's cunning and Sevarius's flair for the dramatic, Thailog stands out as one of the Manhattan clan's most malevolent foes, a creature that even Xanatos regards as a monster.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#160691: May 1st 2019 at 3:47:43 PM

That's 8 [tup] to Lee and Storm. As I said the series is only eight episodes long and their maybe one more keeper, so I'll put off posting their write up until I've seen the end of the season, which hopefully will be before the end of this week.

Age: Personally I like the second one myself.

Edited by MGD107 on May 1st 2019 at 3:51:11 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#160692: May 1st 2019 at 3:52:56 PM

Age: I like the first one personally.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#160693: May 1st 2019 at 3:55:37 PM

[tup] Dylan and Storm.

Also hate to beat dead horses, but looking at Gotham's YMMV page, didn't we cut Eduardo Flamingo months back ?

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#160694: May 1st 2019 at 3:58:55 PM

I could have sworn we removed him for not being unique enough for the show.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#160695: May 1st 2019 at 4:01:00 PM

A question for you guys:

What if a candidate in question after being defeated say this quote. Do you think it affects its qualifications or not:

"It's interesting that this is my first time I got defeated. Perhaps the hero pass my test... No my game. Someday I will meet again with them and play another game"

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on May 1st 2019 at 6:01:21 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#160696: May 1st 2019 at 4:01:17 PM

Did we? I know we cut Galavan awhile back; I can't remember if we did Flamingo.

[up] Hmmm...I don't know. I'm gonna need more information.

Edited by ACW on May 1st 2019 at 7:02:48 AM

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#160697: May 1st 2019 at 4:01:33 PM

He's still on the main page as well. I have little knowledge of him so I'll let you guys deal with him.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#160698: May 1st 2019 at 4:02:44 PM

We did, I made some Arguments supporting him. The general consensus was Abstains but he did get enough downvotes I think

I Persoanlly think he still counts but, meh I won't make that case today.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#160699: May 1st 2019 at 4:04:14 PM

Yeah to Lee and Storm; I like the first quote the most; Elfen, we need more info than that standalone statement.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#160700: May 1st 2019 at 4:05:09 PM

To my memory Flamingo was originally voted to be removed, but following some counterarguments the majority switched to abstain, and the matter just fizzled out.

Edited by MGD107 on May 1st 2019 at 4:06:12 AM


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