During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Based on the EP,
to Mr. Gray.
I don't know about Damian Lewis having fought/opposed or played a CM before this, but Jason Lee has now opposed/fought one as Beaver and played one with Syndrome.
Fixed it myself in the drafts:
- Cars 2: Sir Miles Axlerod and his Dragon Professor "Z" Zündapp are a pair of "lemon" cars who want power and to hurt all other cars simply because they were laughed at for being older models. After they buy up one of the world's largest oil reserves, Professor Z develops a weaponized camera that causes the alternative fuel Allinol to explode and decompose, and Axlerod orchestrates him to use it on the racers of the Grand World Prix, severely damaging the cars to paint alternative fuels as dangerous and drive the world back to oil, which will enrich the villainous duo. Z personally murders both a British spy and an American spy, crushing one and torturing then exploding the other, on Axlerod's orders before the two try to murder the last user of Allinol, Lightning McQueen, planning to make his best friend Tow Mater watch before killing him as well. When their weaponized camera fails, the two plant a bomb on Mater and try to detonate it in a pit stop, uncaring that it is filled with dozens of other cars, and even when their plan fails Z spitefully activated a timer on the bomb to destroy whoever he can.
Let's just make it "personally murders two spies". I'm not sure their nationalities are that relevant.
Sure to Gray.
EDIT: Oh, and I forgot a Gamebook CM: The Give Yourself Goosebumps guy. I'll have to create that page tomorrow and tweak the Arrethrae guys.
Edited by ACW on Apr 30th 2019 at 3:05:40 PM
Also guys a new image pickin thread has opened for live action tv
.
Since superntrual is getting a page, the image will be moved to that subpage. So we need to select a new one for the main page.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Hey guys my house is under a tornado watch. So I'll be heading into a shelter soon.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadStay safe, Bullman
to Gray
Now for some more animated Christian show baddies, subgenre has some hardcore villains haha
What's the work?
Superbook is a 2011 animated kids show that involves 2 children, Chris and Joy, as well as their comedic relief robot Gizmo as they are sent through time by the "Superbook", an ancient Bible-like creation that is capable of time travel. Though the children are sometimes only background observers to animated Bible stories, they often interact with characters and serve as the more lighthearted part of the show.
This show also has a surprising amount of talented and popular voice actors, from Sam Vincent to Brian Drummond to several of the Dobsons and even Garry Chalk.
Who is Satan? What has he done?
Once Lucifer Morningstar, Satan lead a rebellion against Heaven, igniting a war that resulted in many casualties, killing several angels with his own bare hands before he was beaten and cast down into hell by the angel Michael, and his followers alongside him.
Now the Devil and ruler of Hell and all demons, Satan sees that God has created the Earth, and decides that he will destroy it "one perfection at a time", disguising himself as a snake and manipulating Adam and Eve into taking from the Tree of Knowledge. Once the duo fall for his trick, Satan gains power over the Earth and humanity, and slowly spreads his evil.
It is made explicitly clear that evil itself, every crime and atrocity in the series, stems back to Satan, as by tricking Adam and Eve into gaining knowledge of good and evil as concepts, he was able to flood the Earth with his influence and demonic army. In one episode, Satan showcases many of the wars, famines, sicknesses and deaths he has caused over the millennia, from ancient slavers abusing slaves to entire wars fought by modern day soldiers resulting in mass death, and basks in his utter destruction of what God made to be good.
At one point in history, Satan had corrupted humanity to such a point that nothing good existed except for the man Noah and his family, and Satan had corrupted all of mankind into wiping each other out, and so God flooded the Earth to get rid of all of Satan's evil and restart it with Noah and his family.
Satan wasn't stopped there however, as he continued his crimes throughout history. He has his demons possess people to drive them mad, he causes natural disasters for fun that endanger hundreds of people, and he possesses Judas, one of the disciples of Jesus, and uses Judas to betray him and get Jesus tortured and hung on the cross.
In the episode of Job, Satan challenges God in front of an assembly of angels, claiming that he can break the faith of one of the most loyal servants of God, Job, and make him curse God, but tells the angels that God would never give him the opportunity to as a manipulation. God allows Satan to target Job, and Satan proceeds to burn the man's crops, kill many of his servants, then murders Job's sons and daughters. When Job keeps his faith, Satan curses him with an agonizing sickness that makes him scream in pain, but this ultimately fails, Satan is humiliated, and God restores Job's wealth and family to him.
Satan greatly enjoys seducing people to his side and adding them to his ranks of demons, and once his army is strong enough, Satan amasses his forces and begins marching on the Earth, planning to wipe out all life on it and reduce it to an ugly, barren wasteland as a final spiteful move towards God.
When he separates the young Chris from his friends Joy and Gizmo along the march on Earth, Satan disguises himself as a holy angel and tries to convince the boy to join him and forsake God, but he stays strong and reunites with his friends. Satan responds by transforming into a rather terrifying snake and attempting to eat the children and their robot friend, screaming all the while how his armies will crush every last human they can and enslave any who survive for all eternity.
Luckily, God and his army arrive at the final hour and save the children and destroy Satan's army, even as he tries to kill as many angels as possible, and as Satan dies the world is shown to become peaceful and happy again, as sicknesses are wiped away, wars are ended, and evil itself is erased as Satan was the original creator of the sheer concept.
Does Satan have a Freudian Excuse or other mitigating factors?
No, he turns on God out of spite and jealousy and he is never given any sort of redeeming features, being just a monster who wants to destroy humanity For the Evulz. He is also stated to have moral agency and be making his choices willingly
Is Satan sufficiently heinous?
I would say so. Satan is noted to be the only reason death and destruction exist in the world, as while humans can make their own choices, Satan is the one who even allows pain and misery to exist.
God does flood humanity in the episode of Noah and causes plagues during the episode of Moses, notably killing every firstborn child in Egypt, but to note is that God is more powerful than Satan and in every case of God punishing many people, it is ultimately traced back to Satan driving humans into being evil and corrupt.
However, even if you do attribute God's actions as seriously affecting the heinous standard, Satan still stands out and passes the standard, as he is ultimately the source of evil on Earth and not only has many crimes on his hands, but his final plan is the complete annihilation and enslavement of humanity, which far surpasses anything God does.
Final Verdict?
Edited by AgeOfTropeEmpire on Apr 30th 2019 at 12:49:35 PM
Right, so I was the one who added Conrad to the Bob The Builder YMMV page, not having any idea this thread exists. I was told to effort post it if I wanted it to count, I would need to make an Effort Post, so here goes.
Bob The Builder's Setting: As you guys probably already know, both the original and 2015 shows are aimed at children. All conflict on the show arises from either natural causes, (the assigned jobs being difficult or weather) or mishaps from the characters, none of whom ever act maliciously. The closest the show had to a villain before Conrad was Spud from the original series; who was more-so a mischief maker than a real villain.
Conrad: In the film Bob The Builder: Mega Machines, Conrad and his Mega Machines are assigned as Bob's partners to build a massive dam for Spring City. At first, it's just a normal job for the team, but on a much grander scale. That is however, until Conrad orders one of his machines, Ace, to sabotage the concrete mixture, and threatens to scrap him if he doesn't. This threatens to destroy Spring City by a massive flood, which Conrad doesn't care about in the slightest. When Scoop finds out and tries to warn Bob, Conrad lies to Bob's face and tells him that Scoop messed up the concrete. And when the dam finally does start to be compromised, he refuses to allow his Mega Machines to help Bob and his team divert the water away. And he does all of this while giddily laughing, and even taunting them by corrupting Bob's "can we fix it?" catchphrase. "Can he fix it? I don't think so!" And when other characters call him out when the jig is up, he shows no remorse.
His motivation? Conrad's motivation for his actions is best summarized as "Jealousy." Conrad wanted to be assigned as the team leader to build the dam as he wanted. However, when Bob got the position instead, he grew resentful of Bob. To get revenge, he wanted to sabotage the dam and make it look like Bob's mistake to ruin his reputation.
Conclusion: I do believe that Conrad meets all of the requirements for a Complete Monster: he's one guy, as none of his Mega Machines want anything to do with his plot. His actions are pretty heinous, especially within the context of the show. All of his actions are visible to the audience, which creates quite a bit of Dramatic Irony. His actions, and the fact that he does them with malicious intent, gains the ire of all the rest of the characters, even Bob himself, making him irredeemable. He doesn't pull any punches when opportunities for sabotage arise. He definitely stands out from the rest of the characters, as he really is the only traditional villain on the show. He never shows any regret for his actions, and when he's discovered, he just gets mad at his machines and threatens to scrap them again. He had the ability to simply help Bob and his team get the job done, but simply chose not to. And finally, his motivation does not in any way justify his actions.
Well, there's my effort post. I suppose if it's not approved then it won't be brought up again?
Edited by MetroidPeter on Apr 30th 2019 at 10:47:47 PM
"You are what you choose to be." -Hogarth Hughes, The Iron Giant "You've got to fight to make a wish come true!" -Fantasy, The PagemastYes to Mr. Gray and Satan.
Speaking of Western Animation, is there any 80s animation villains who have not become Complete Monsters? It seems like most of the big ones: Skeletor, Hordak, Shredder, Megatron, Cobra Commander and Mumm-Ra became Complete Monsters. It seems like its often easier to get to keep their original personalities intact and just make them more evil, rather then make them more sympathetic and kinda change their characters in the process.
Edited by Overlord on Apr 30th 2019 at 1:05:12 AM

Well, might as well:
What is the work?
Dreamcatcher is an adaptation of the Stephen King novel of the same name. It's about a group of four lifetime friends - Henry, Jonesy, Beaver and Pete - who make a fifth friend, a mentally challenged boy they affectionately call Duddits. One day, Duddits gives them the ability to "know" things, effectively making them psychic. And it seems this was all to prepare the boys for when they became men and had to fight the Shit Weasels.
OK, so the alien menace is named that once, but their official designation is "Ripley" as a shout out to the Alien franchise... but I'm not gonna stop calling them Shit Weasels. And the most prominent of them all?
Who is Mr Gray? What has he done?
"Mr Gray" is an alien that seeks to spread its kind throughout the world with a terrible infection: The Shit Weasel grows in your stomach then eats its way through your butt, hence the off colour name. It attempts to infect Jonesy but can't, presumably because he had been "killed" in a car accident some months before. Instead using Jonesy as a host body and becoming inexplicably British, Mr Gray tries to read through all the memories in Jonesy's Memory Warehouse - kind of like Sherlock's Memory Palace - but Jonesy, who is still alive inside his own mind, keeps himself locked in a room Mr Gray can't enter. Failing to trick Pete due to mind reading, Gray forces Pete to help him reach Massachusetts. Wanting to know how these men got their powers, Gray pushes for answers on who Dudditts is. Pete tells him to "bite his bag", to which Gray responds "OK Pete. I'll bite. Your bag. And everything else." Before turning into his true form and biting him in two while Jonesy is forced to helplessly watch from within his mind. Continuing on his way, Gray murders a truck driver delivering infected cadavers and feeds them to the man's dog, cheerfully infecting the pooch. Killing a cop and taking his car when the truck is no longer viable, Gray reaches a dam hoping to infect the water supply, for you see, as Duddits tells Henry when they give chase "One worm infects the world". Finally Duddits confronts Gray, whom abandons Jonesy to impale Duddits but it turns out Duddits was also an alien.
What.
Anyway, Duddits transforms and impales Gray, with the tow of them exploding in a red mist, seemingly killing them both.
Heinousness?
Easily. While the initial symptoms of the Shit Weasel are played for laughs - flatulence and belching - the final result is pretty awful. Gray wanted to do this to the whole world, not to mention his wanton murders and poisoning a dog just for good measure. There are other aliens but they are dispatched by Morgan Freeman - his character has a name but I'm just gonna call him Morgan Freeman. Morgan Freeman himself is pretty heinous, but he's gone made after 25 years of fighting aliens, thinks he's doing the right thing and Gray is still worse.
Mitigating factors?
In the film? No. There are other aliens but he doesn't express care for them and Duddits' true form is similar to Gray's and Duddits is a saint, so moral agency should be fine.
According to my research the book says Gray's motives are due to revenge for humanity destroying his race and planet, but not only is this completely absent in the film the film actively contradicts it by showing other aliens. Gray is simply a sadistic invasive bastard of an alien.
He's pretty Narmy, I guess the idea being his faux affable britishness would make his true self scarier, but he is intended as a serious threat as silly as he is - not unlike Tim Curry's take on Pennywise, in a sense.
Conclusion
Unless I'm mistaken an easy keep that slipped under the radar for about 16 years. What about you guys?
Edited by PolarPhantom on Apr 30th 2019 at 7:21:03 PM