TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#160001: Apr 28th 2019 at 3:51:25 PM

Inclined to agree with the opposition. I don’t see her 100% abandoning her genuine feelings for Light, despite her insanity and want for the notebook.

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#160002: Apr 28th 2019 at 3:56:00 PM

Isaiah bursted into tears when his father died yet he wasn't downvoted. So why does Mia have to be downvoted over a single tear? She was about to die, she was just trying to manipulate Light.

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#160003: Apr 28th 2019 at 3:56:27 PM

[up] Mia has a ton more going against her qualifying than just that.

Kylo, you're not convincing anyone and the downvotes far outweigh any upvotes - you need to learn when to drop a matter and let it stay dropped when it's clear you're outvoted. Because to be perfectly frank, this is something you've had repeated trouble with on this thread. You keep pushing and pushing to get people to see things your way even when the likelihood of that happening is all too clearly slim. Please knock it off already.

Edited by ANewMan on Apr 28th 2019 at 3:57:11 AM

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#160005: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:02:16 PM

I'll Admit, I've had issues with that. I have issues with letting go in real life as well that I'm working with people on.

But this time? She was E Ped a little while ago. And it wasn't one but multiple Things being talked about. And some of them was just me trying to make sense of some of the Counterpoints(The Mentally unstable or 13 victims not heinous enough) thing.

The thing about Mia Posibly loving light? I disagree but I can understand why thatd be an issue. We've had many conversations that have gone on for Far longer.

If you want to Discuss that further please PM me. As this has gotten a little bit Personal at this point.

Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 28th 2019 at 4:03:19 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#160006: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:05:05 PM

Kylo: I'm not weighing in on this one, but usually, discussions that go on for awhile have votes fairly even on both sides; this one seems a pretty uniform no.

Who's Isaiah?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#160007: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:05:27 PM

Look, I've seen the movie, I think she cared about Light, regardless. That's really where I end it.

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#160008: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:06:03 PM

[up][up] Isaiah from The Strange Thing About the Johnsons.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Apr 28th 2019 at 8:06:19 AM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#160009: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:06:16 PM

[nja]

Edited by falcontalons on Apr 28th 2019 at 4:06:27 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#160010: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:07:50 PM

Ive made my case and am moving on.

Also Isaiah was from "the strange thing about the Johnson's"

Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 28th 2019 at 4:09:05 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#160011: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:08:32 PM

Glad that the whole Mia debacle had been solved.

@ANewMan: Rudeness aside, the only reason why I did so was to get that out of the way because she was brought up again.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#160012: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:10:20 PM

So, anyone got a new effortpost?

Also, if this happens, I'm calling it.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#160013: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:13:45 PM

@ACW Nope... I'm currently skimming a Karakuri Circus manga cuz why naut. (Looks at Lighty) Will do an EP if I have some works. Right now I'm bankrupt and doing a rewrite feels tricky because of the fiasco on shortening an entry for the sake of shortening an entry.

I'm currently wanted to EP someone from Indie games judging by my profile pic but that's a rather tricky one due to I'm always afraid getting beaten ._.

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Apr 28th 2019 at 6:14:41 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
#160014: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:16:55 PM

This strange proposal, but can we cut Orsi brothers from never again list. They were never discussed to death like others on the list. Here is the only time a troper proposed them. Troper accepted that they don't count and they weren't discussed afterward.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=47#1156

Edited by hegelvonaxel on Apr 28th 2019 at 4:30:45 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#160015: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:18:07 PM

Switching to [tdown] to Mia then, say did Hobbes from the Tick ever got a write-up because I remember MGD 107 effortposting him and he was approved but I don’t see a write up of him on the weekly batch

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#160016: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:20:02 PM

He said I could do the Write up. He sent me a rough draft for a Wrtie up this Morning and said I could to an Edit on him all I wanted, I'm just not really in the best mood today for a number of reasons.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#160017: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:23:25 PM

I'd do my Ares write up (btw I can't believe I got an Ares up), although I've been dealing with writers block on and off and it may have effected my write ups.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#160018: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:35:00 PM

Honestly, it might not be a terrible idea to go through the whole Never Again list and see if all of them need to be there. I think the "Definitely a CM" ones (and Joker) are all fine.

For SpongeBob: "Any character, period, whether from the cartoon or the film. They all fail the heinous standard and it's a comedy. Yes, even Plankton, Dennis, and Mr. Krabs."

Could we just change that to "Nobody is heinous enough."? What's there now sounds condescending, and "it's a comedy" is NOT a reason (hello, Sarris and Ronan and Ego and Hela and Judge Doom).

Edited by ACW on Apr 28th 2019 at 7:39:16 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#160019: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:38:12 PM

I've been wanting to go through that list for awhile now. And fully agree with AC Ws Replacemant for the Spongebob one.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#160020: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:39:22 PM

Abstain on Mia for reasons outlined above

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
Wuz Since: Jun, 2013
#160021: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:39:52 PM

I want to propose a rewrite for William D. Pelley for Kaiserreich, cutting down on some excessive descriptions, rewriting some parts to be closer aligned to in-game descriptions, and adding some extra crimes.

Current:

  • Complete Monster: William Dudley Pelley is the leader of the far-right Silver Legion faction within the America First Union Party. During the Second American Civil War, Pelley allies with Huey Long and oligarchic elements of the America First Union Party as part of an far-right Anti-Syndicalist power bloc fighting against the Combined Syndicates of America and the Federal Government. If the American Union State wins the civil war, Pelley will launch a coup if Huey Long rejects measures to enforce Prohibition. If victorious, he purges both Huey Long's populist faction and the oligarchs and turn America into a white supremacist fundamentalist nation, enacting policies such as establishing an anti-Semitic and anti-German interpretation of Christian fundamentalism; enforcing Jim Crow across all of America; and sending Syndicalists and other dissidents to forced labor camps, as well as allowing other white supremacist groups such as the Ku Klux Klan into politics. Pelley also fosters rabid anti-vaccination conspiracy theories—claiming vaccines are a syndicalist conspiracy—and promotes politicians also supporting such ideas; this leads to a ban of vaccines that leaves much of the population crippled in the biggest polio outbreak in American history. Notoriously racist even for his era, and despised by every other faction within the America First Union Party, Pelley represents the worst aspects of the American far-right.

Rewrite:

  • Complete Monster: William Dudley Pelley is the leader of the far-right Silver Legion faction within Huey Long's America First Union Party. During the Second American Civil War, Pelley allies with Huey Long as a part of his right-wing American Union State, fighting against the left-wing Combined Syndicates of America and the Federal Government. If the AUS wins the civil war, Pelley will launch a coup if Huey Long rejects measures to enforce Prohibition. If victorious, Pelley purges everyone in the AUS government that's not in his faction, and executes Huey Long, turning America into a white supremacist Christian fundamentalist nation. Once in power, Pelley enacts policies such as enforcing Jim Crow laws across all of America, absorbing The Klan into the government and forming a Klan-led Secret Police, and sends dissidents to forced labor camps. Pelley also proposes acts to restrict African-American freedom of movement, cuts African-American education to only focus on labor education, and expands African-American criminalization and penal labor to bring back slavery. Pelley also fosters rabid anti-vaccination conspiracy theories, leading to the biggest polio outbreak in American history. Notoriously racist even for his era, and despised by every other faction within the America First Union Party, Pelley represents the worst aspects of the American far-right.

I reorganized the paragraph somewhat. The actions in this sentence:

"Once in power, Pelley enacts policies such as enforcing Jim Crow laws across all of America, absorbing The Klan into the government and forming a Klan-led Secret Police, and sends dissidents to forced labor camps."

are all from the railroaded national focuses. The actions from the sentence after that, plus the antivax sentence:

"Pelley also proposes acts to restrict African-American freedom of movement, cuts African-American education to only focus on labor education, and expands African-American criminalization and penal labor to bring back slavery. Pelley also fosters rabid anti-vaccination conspiracy theories, leading to the biggest polio outbreak in American history."

Are all from events that happen when Pelley is in power, and seems to be generally unavoidable with no option to avert them. One event, the Black Belt Act, which focuses on creating African American "reservations", "seems" to be temporarily avoidable. Pelley still proposes the thing, and your options are basically "go ahead" or "maybe later". Given the circumstances, I went with a more neutral "proposes acts to restrict African-American freedom of movement".

Some of the events are also attributed to Pelley's shell Congress or the Silver Legion rather than Pelley himself. However, considering that Pelley is in full control of his Congress and the Silver Legion, I figured that these events would be fine too.

Edited by Wuz on Apr 28th 2019 at 7:43:50 PM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#160022: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:40:08 PM

Yeah... I quite like the proposal. Heck it would be fine like this:

"The characters in the show fails the heinous standard. Even Mr. Krabs, Dennis or Plankton"

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#160023: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:41:07 PM

Why mention Mr. Krabs at all? He clearly has different factors that prohibit from qualifying anyway.

Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#160024: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:41:53 PM

~ACW I was more in favor of listing The Fairly OddParents!, South Park, and SpongeBob SquarePants together as shows with Negative Continuity and acts of evil generally Played for Laughs.

Edited by Brainulator9 on Apr 28th 2019 at 7:43:24 AM

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#160025: Apr 28th 2019 at 4:43:51 PM

@Austin DR Ah youre right whoops. But I think I like ACW's version better.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."

Total posts: 326,048
Top