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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#159427: Apr 24th 2019 at 5:42:58 PM

I'm Curious, do we Compare to the other C Ms listed? The Twighlight Zone gives little indication if the episodes share a Universe.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#159428: Apr 24th 2019 at 5:44:11 PM

We create a joint heinous standard for anthology series. That's how we handled Black Mirror and that's how we stacked the two Twilight Zone keepers we have listed.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#159429: Apr 24th 2019 at 5:45:09 PM

For the new incarnation, from the looks of it, it'll probably not be the case.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#159430: Apr 24th 2019 at 5:45:19 PM

Understood. Thankyou

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#159431: Apr 24th 2019 at 5:46:09 PM

I mean, for Peter? I really...don't see it.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#159432: Apr 24th 2019 at 6:04:41 PM

Hol up. I remember that episode and can say no to Peter right off the bat.

Birdy18 Birdygamer from Home Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Singularity
Birdygamer
#159433: Apr 24th 2019 at 6:05:26 PM

I have a contender for the Twilight Zone Complete Monster position: Peter Craig from the season 3 episode: "The Little People"

WHAT'S THE WORK?

The Twilight zone is a show that features multiple scenarios about different times and events. It will showcase the lighter and darker side of humanity or even life itself.

The episode in question is called "The Little People". The episode features two astronauts that land on some unknown planet in the floor of a canyon. The commander soon finds out later how troubled or twisted his co-pilot, Peter Craig really is.

WHO IS PETER CRAIG? WHAT DID HE DO?

Since this is only a Twilight Zone episode, which takes roughly 20 minutes, there's no huge backstory with him, but his personality and interactions with his commander show that he has huge amount of power hunger, wanting to be the one to give the orders. However, his power hunger decends into a full scale God complex. A lazy pilot who prefers keeping water all to himself and leaving his commander in the dark. But his true descent into villainy comes from the discovery of the little people. Craig develops a severe case of God complex and shows his already tyrannical nature by stomping on a lot of the little people's houses, presumably killing a lot of them. He then forces the little people through fear to build a statue of him overnight. Peter Craig goes off the deep end when he flat out betrays his commander by staying behind and even tries to shoot his commander when he feels that he might have to share his "godhood". After his commander leaves, Craig slams his helmet onto the little people and tells them that he'll have to continue to "remind" them not to anger him

DOES HE HAVE A FREUDIAN EXCUSE?

Uh, no. He is power hungry and later has a huge God complex, nothing has been stated about his past but from what we see, he's just a tyrant.

IS HE SUFFICIENTLY HEINOUS?

Let's see, power hungry man who leaves a stream all to himself and leaves his commander in the dark. He becomes a tyrant with one heck of a God complex who betrays his commander, shoots and almost kills him, destroys the little people either by stepping on them or by slamming his helmet onto them so they know what happens when they "anger" him. It's obvious that him getting crushed by a larger giant is deserved all the way

VERDICT?

He fits the description to a t. [tup] in my book.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#159434: Apr 24th 2019 at 6:08:27 PM

I remain a no: his crimes against the little people aren't dwelled upon beyond causing damage to their village, he comes across more as a whiney brat tasting power for the first time more than pure evil and the two listed keepers (in particular Lutze) have far nastier crimes with the consequences of them fully spelled out.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#159435: Apr 24th 2019 at 6:08:38 PM

On an unrelated note, for Dr. Cyclops, apparently there was a novel adaptation where Thorkel worked for some Nazis. Any read that book?

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#159436: Apr 24th 2019 at 6:10:02 PM

[tdown]

Not even comes close to matching Lutze in terms of heinousness.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#159437: Apr 24th 2019 at 6:13:37 PM

Having seen the episode, no to Peter. He's not nearly heinous enough compared to the two currently listed keepers. Especially Lutze.

Edited by Bullman on Apr 24th 2019 at 8:15:17 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#159438: Apr 24th 2019 at 6:15:38 PM

I Don't fully remember the episode. I Persoanlly would be able to Forgive him not being as Bad as Lutze, as Lutze was only able to do all the stuff he did after being given control of a Concentration camp, Peter most certainly dosent have That.

That being said I'm not sure if he Crosses baseline or do as much as he can with his recourses. If it was made clear he was killing loads of people in his little Outbursts it'd be a Differant story, but if not? Gonna give a [tdown] there.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#159439: Apr 24th 2019 at 6:22:06 PM

Haven’t seen Twilight Zone, but going by what everyone else is saying, i’m gonna have to give an [tdown] for Peter.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#159440: Apr 24th 2019 at 7:01:25 PM

[tdown] to Peter.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#159441: Apr 24th 2019 at 7:02:37 PM

No to Peter.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#159443: Apr 24th 2019 at 7:13:17 PM

TV Lubber edited Enlil's entry on Ulysses: Jeanne d'Arc and the Alchemist Knights without consulting the thread.

I don't recall there being a second season in development.

IPP Wick Check created.
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#159445: Apr 24th 2019 at 7:19:10 PM

[up][up] PM the troper.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 24th 2021 at 8:39:58 AM

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#159447: Apr 24th 2019 at 7:24:15 PM

Ok then.

I'm going to bed now, and I will be offline for 3 days.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 24th 2019 at 10:25:13 AM

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#159448: Apr 24th 2019 at 7:41:55 PM

[up] Wow, long nap

[tdown] to Peter

Edited by Libraryseraph on Apr 24th 2019 at 10:42:46 AM

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#159449: Apr 24th 2019 at 7:42:23 PM

Hey I decided to create a template for E Ps for new people to look at. It's in my Forum Signature. Thoughts?

Libraryseraph uu~ from Canada (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
uu~
#159450: Apr 24th 2019 at 7:44:58 PM

[up] Looks good, nice and clear

HAPPY HALLOWEEN FOR MARIA

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