During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@ACW That name truly sounds familiar until I checked that he was the guy who played the father of the main character in a soccer movie called Goal! (I like soccer so yeah)
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
The Draftsman of Doom
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Max. This is probably the 4th monster this year with almost the same first name as me, along with Max Parry, plus a few others I don't remember.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 24th 2019 at 7:56:39 AM
Rawr.
Wild Child
So I've reserved discussion for Missing Link (Laika fan here); however, it may take me a bit to see the film, so could discussion be postponed for a while until I do?
Why so serious?
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That's fine. If it takes a few days or a week past the discussion date, no biggie.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
We also have older keepers Max Capricorn and both version of Max Cady.
Birdygamer
I know I'm going to get a lot of hate for this but I feel that we might want to look into Infinte from Sonic Forces.
My reasoning is that since we don't know the full story of the phantom ruby since Sonic Forces didn't really help much. I feel that Infinte 's personality involving the phantom ruby is a little up in the air regarding how much was his doing and how much was the ruby's doing. I would've believed he's pure evil if he did all this without the phantom ruby but since that's not the case here. I feel we should remove Infinite as a Complete Monster due to the lack of full knowledge of the phantom ruby
Someone who knows more about Sonic needs to elucidate for me, TBH
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Erazor mentioned that in the effortpost, but let's settle it. Calling ~erazor0707
EDIT: Let me make sure that's how it's done: ~acw
Edited by ACW on Apr 24th 2019 at 10:25:36 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lizzid people!
I'll wait for erazor's word on Infinite since I don't really buy the claims of the Phantom Ruby corrupting him.
Edited by AustinDR on Apr 24th 2019 at 7:23:38 AM
The Unknown Unknown
The Phantom Ruby is never mentioned to corrupt Infinite's mind. Even then, Infinite knew exactly what he was getting into.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Birdygamer
Again, the phantom ruby has never been fully explained
Lizzid people!
And? There's no evidence that it corrupts the user. I don't see how that's an issue.
Birdygamer
It's also mentioned in the Alternative Character Interpretation of Sonic Forces. Also, we don't know the full story of Infinite. We don't know why he wanted a destroyed world, or maybe the ruby warped that. I feel Infinte doesn't have enough of a backstory
Writeup for Skeletor and Mumm-Ra:
"He-Man/Thundercats" and "Injustice vs Masters of the Universe": Skeletor and Mumm-Ra are the evil supernatural beings, who desided to unite in order to destroy their sworn enemies and take over all reality. Enslaving Ancient Spirits of Evil, thus giving them form of titanic beasts, the two command them to cause chaos all over Eternia in order to take possession of two ancient magic swords, Sword of Omens and Sword of Power. As a result, thousands people of Eternia were killed and nearly all Eternia was on brink of destruction. When the remaining forces of Eternia and Thundercats manage to defeat their beasts, Skeletor and Mumm-Ra fuse in to extremely powerful being Mumm-Ator and, after destroying the remaining opposition, break in to the Castle of Greyskull to try to take over the multiverse. After Lion-O and He-Man combined their power to separate and banish them, weakened Skeletor pretends to serve both Darkseid and power mad Superman, manipulating them both, causing Darkseid to invade Eternia, action which resulted in many more people being killed or brainwashed to be servants of Darkseid.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Isn't Alternative Character Interpretation is well... A little bit weak when it comes to presenting an argument? Just saying
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Okay, this whole thing is "MAYBE the Ruby did this" with zero evidence?
The Unknown Unknown
Doesn't matter. We take what we're given on material and make the call. If it comes up in the future, sure, we'll relitigate. As for now, there's nothing that shows impairment of moral agency.
Oh, by the way, in the prequel comic, the Ruby showed Infinite dreamed of desolation even before Eggman gave him the rock.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Birdygamer
Also think of this: Before, Eggman wanted to take over the world, not destroy it, yet once he gets his hands on the Phantom Ruby, he all of a sudden wants to turn the world to ash and raise up his empire. Kind of goes against his standards
Lizzid people!
How is that an argument against Infinite? Especially since Eggman's been around for 20+ years?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Skeletor and Mumm-Ra go to DC other continuities (even though it involves Injustice, it doesn't seem to impact the events of the game itself, unlike Joker). I'm not touching the YMMV though, as the crossover stuff makes YMMV too much to deal with.
Edited by ACW on Apr 24th 2019 at 10:47:41 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Birdygamer
All im trying to point out is that the phantom ruby seems to be more than meets the eye. It turned Eggman whom we knew had some standards and a jackal that we don't know too much about it why the way he is, into Omnicidal Maniacs. I would even go as far to say that the Phantom Ruby is the true villain of Sonic Forces
It apparently in canon with Injustice comics, at least from what i read.
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Apr 24th 2019 at 5:48:18 PM
Lizzid people!
Eggman's a case where how he acts varies depending on the game.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Max. Played by Tony Plana, who voiced the Player Character in Grim Fandango.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts