During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
There's a certain Psycho for Hire that i'm interested in proposing but he's still alive so i'm going to read the rest of the manga to confirm if he makes further appearances.
Well, I had already been working on this for a few days, so I suppose I'll just get this over with, not like it's gonna Hurt anyone. Thanks Fried for giving me permission for this.
Whats the work?
Shazam! Is based on the comic book of the same name. Following an Angsty teen named Billy Batson who had recently been adopted Into a Foster family after years of running from foster homes. Suddenly he is Chosen by the Wizard Shazam to be his Champion. Thus he becomes a superhero.
Unmarked spoilers ahead.
Who's the Candidate? What do they do?
Dr.Sivana. As a child Sivana was Bullied by his Older brother and his Father would allow this, wich made him feel Weak. At one Point, he was summoned by the Wizard Shazam for a Chance to prove himself worthy of his Power. Unfortunately the Boy instead gave into the Temptation of the Demonic Seven Deadly sins. The Wizard deems him not worthy because of this and sends him back. Sivana has a brief freak out after being Rejected, Wich resulted in his Father almost getting in an Acidnet and pulling over to Harshly Scold him, Wich in turn results in the Car actually getting into an Acident Wich ends up breaking his Fathers legs. Sivanas brother blaming him for it.
The 7 sins were able to Telepathically contact Sivana, telling him they'd give him power if he found them. As the Years went by Sivana became a doctor and was Obsessed with that Night. He used Money he made as a Doctor to Fund the Research of a female Phycologist who was Helping people who went through the same thing(Said Phycologist thinking this was some sort of Illusion people were experiencing) so that he'd learn from other people's experiences the Correct symbol Pattern the Portal had. Eventually this Suceeds and Finishes Putting the Correct Symbols on a door.
He is Able to return to the Wizards room and Releases the 7 deadly sins, they come into his eye turning it Blue. He then Returns to the Normal World and goes to His father's Company. Where he Confronts his Father and the board, he throws his brother out a window before having the Demons feed Upon The Board, leaving his Father for last as he begins to Monologue about Power. But during this one the the Sins tells him that The Wizard had chosen a Champion. He Leaves, not before having Greed Finish off his Father.
He later goes on to Try and find The Wizards champion, and finally does so when he meets Billy, they have a Fight Wich Sivana somewhat easily gets the better of him in. And Billy ultimately Says Shazam And Shifts to his Kid self while in a crowd, so that he could slip away.
Sivana however sees a video Caught of Billy in his Shazam form talking to His Step brother Freddy, Shivana then finds Freddy and Demands He take him to Billy.
Freddy Reluntacntly brings Sivana To His foster House, and Sivana waits for Billy and when he Arrives Holds the Foster siblings hostage, forcing Billy to Come to the Wizards room with him so Billy can Give him the Wizards power. Thankfully Billy's Foster siblings come and Are Able to Distract Sivana long enough for Billy to Knock him out. They then Flee, After waking back up Sivana is able To track the Group down to a Circus. Sivana Attempts to have the People at the Circus killed to Draw Billy out, Luckily Billy transforms Before anyone got Seriously hurt and Begins to Fight Sivana again, awhile later Sivana ends up holding Billy's Foster siblings hostage again, trying to have the Youngest sister Eaten by the Sins before Billy seems to Surrender. Billy comes over but just before he gives Sivana the Wizards power he Gets an Idea, Remembering how Shazam talked about his 6 “Brothers and sisters” the other Wizards and Knocks Sivana away. Then Billy Gives the Other 6 siblings the power of The other 6 Wizards The Wizard Once fought with.
Sivana sends most of the Sins out to Fight the now super powered step siblings while he has a final Fight with Billy, Billy is able to Defeat Sivana as he had earlier learned Sivanas Weakness, he needs the other sins to Keep his Power. Billy then Goads the Sin of Envy, the only sin that Sivana had left with him out to Fight thus leaving Sivana Powerless. Billy then Pulls The Sins Orb From Sivanas eye trapping the Sins once again.
Sivana goes to Prison, where he is shown to Desperately be writing the Symbols on the wall trying to reopen the portal. He is unsuccessful but is Approached by the Villanous Mr.Mind who tells him there are other ways to Gain magic….
Freudian Excuse? Mitigating Qualities?
Yeah, this warrants discussion. He Grew up with a Jerkass father and Brother, and then was rejected by The Wizard Wich Spurred his obsession with gaining power.
All that Certainly sucks and Sivana is fairly complex because of it….But there's a few things here, For one Billy himself tells Sivana he knew how he felt, to feel alone, Uncared for, feeling if you'll be good enough if you get something. And Sivana Spitefully Ignores him.
He got his Revenge agasint his dad and brother pretty Early in the Movie when he brutally killed both of them. His motives afterwards, while a bit Complex still ultimately boiled down to being Driven by Envy and Spite.
Plus, I think he just takes it a bit too far...I mean, the whole thing with “Was abused as a kid” to “Tries to have small child eaten alive by Demons” Dosent quite have too much water IMO.
Heinousness?
Another thing Raised against him, but I still think I can Make an Argument here.
Sivana has the least Recources of the DCEU villains so far, Zod, Steppenwolf, Orm all had powerful armies and Advanced technology at there command. Lex had a Multi-Million dollar company at his disposal. And Ludenorff was one of Germany's military leaders.
Sivana has some fairly strong Magic and 7 demons(Only 6 of whom he can use). And for his Recources I think he gets pretty bad. Particualry with what he did at the board, Nightmarishly and Slowly Murdering them by Feeding them to demons. And while it's been Argued he could have been worse, I disagree with that. Immediately after said Massacre he is told about how the Wizards Champion was Chosen, Wich becomes his Priority for the rest of the Film, Plus even then he did some evil stuff along the way like Threataning to kill Billies foster Siblings or trying to have everyone in the Circus killed to Draw Billy out.
Final Verdict?
Meh, I can Certainly see why some people do feel like he dosent qualify. But I felt I should make my arguments known.
Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 19th 2019 at 4:06:31 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
to Satan
to Sivana
My write ups will be coming later tonight likely, but first I wanted to ask: Since no one else has discussed it, does anyone mind if I put the Doctor (and other any candidates) from Metro Exodus on my To-Do? I know he had an unapproved entry that was deleted, and in my opinion he counts, it'll just take me a bit to get to him so if no one minds I'll add him to my To-Do
Still a firm
to Sivanna. Even with the resources difference, he can do far, far worse than kill a board room of directors and try to kill the heroes. He could have tried to bait Billy out of hiding in the mall by causing mass destruction until he showed up for example. Or alternatively, he could have physically tortured Billy's foster siblings to goad him into coming inside. Or he could have decided to destroy the entire building his father worked at after leaving, killing far more people than just the board of directors.
Sivanna's a decent villain, but he's bog standard in regards to heinousness for a villain in a superhero story, even if we don't take the other DCEU villains into account.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Apr 19th 2019 at 7:38:39 AM
@Future what? He was already evil before he got the orb, as he was apathetic to the Phycologist being slowly killed by his research. And after he lost the orb nothing changes. The other reasons made some sense but that dosent
Also a minor defense but @Aweosme kid "He could have tried to bait Billy out of hiding by causing mass destruction until he showed up for example."
That's....exactly what he does.
Things are really about to get Fun around hereAbstaining on Sivana. I haven't seen the movie yet, but was planning on seeing it next week.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadActually, I was thinking Aquaman for some reason, which DID have wet Amber Heard (shows how much I follow the DCEU
).
For Transformers Animated, will Megatron go at the top of the tree?
Also, what should we do about those Kung Fu Panda fanfic writeups? There's gotta be a middle ground between the CM entries and the YMMV entries.
Edited by ACW on Apr 19th 2019 at 8:11:12 AM

I’m wondering who else in innocent qualifies