During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
@mir Even without knowing a lot of the details, Xehanort’s cut is disappointing.
Interestingly enough, Paplović’s entry in the TV section will now be the first under S. Make it very easy to find.
Also, I wonder if we’ll eventually be making a page for the ArchieVerse someday. Haha.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 19th 2019 at 2:09:19 AM
Pop, Quinn and good ol' Satan. I'm a big fan of Santa Clarita Diet so i'm very happy to see that the show has given us a candidate. Now, for the EP:
What is the work? Innocent is an on-going duology of not-so-innocent historical drama mangas taking place during the 18th century. We follow the tragic and macabre story of the Sansons, a family of royal executioners for the French monarchy. Our two main protagonists are polar opposites of each other: Charles-Henri, an optimistic, effeminate man who struggles to accept his fate as the fourth Monsieur de Paris, and his younger sister, Marie-Josèphe, a pessimistic, masculine woman with an attraction towards violence and a tendency to speak in third-person. Growing up in the same household and in the same Crapsack World, both suffered abuse at the of other people; including family members, experiences which opened their eyes to see how cruel this world truly is, driving them to become ruthless in their quest to change society for a better future. The world of Innocent is barbaric, especially if you're not part of the elite, people regularly prey on others for their own benefit and we rarely see characters with a pure heart, and it is the crime of being good in this world that gave us our first candidate for this manga.
Who is he? Handsome on the outside and utterly horrendous on the inside, Count De Luxe is a proud member of the Royal Court who believes that only money and status can make you an important person in this world. Appearing in both mangas, De Luxe is introduced kicking a child worker, Cécile, in the face for trying to eat bread at a party, informing her that anything she and her people touch is not even fit for being dogfood; seeing that the child had befriended a small snow-white monkey named Blanka, De Luxe shows interest in making it a new ingredient for him. When Blanka's owner, the good-hearted knight Alain arrives to help the child, De Luxe is surprised to see that a non-Aristocrat could stand up to him, calling him a "Café Au Lait", a discriminatory term for an individual with mixed race. Challenging Alain to a duel for daring to oppose someone of his reputation, De Luxe is defeated in a matter of seconds by his experienced opponent, Alain's victory is followed by the appearance of Marie. In the past, Alain, who had a soft spot for kids, began preaching in the streets and gifting the children of the lower-classes with free food, decorating one with Marie's ribbon.
Indifferent even as a child, Marie approached Alain and insisted on having her ribbon returned to her; Alain simply asked for Marie to look at the orphan girl and see how happy she was just to touch high-quality ribbon, explaining that "Money and property may get stolen or lost, but no one can take the dreams and hope that burn in your heart"; Alain's positivity managed to melt Marie's cold heart and he soon became her first love interest. Seeking to spread his love to other parts of the world, Alain promised to come back and bring happiness to children all across France, and many years later, he marked his return by kicking De Luxe's ass in combat. Shortly after his return, Alain planned on building a school for the poor and wasted no time in registering Cécile as a student. A few days later, De Luxe and his rich buddies found the residence where Alain intended to teach the children, and he was disgusted by the idea of "grub worm children" being given the same teaching as aristocrats, viewing Alain's benevolence as "evil thoughts that should be turned to ash". Bringing several orphans from the monestary, Alain took anyone regardless of status or assets to his school; such act of benevolence made Marie question if Alain was trying to prove that Rousseau Was Right, with Alain recruiting her in his mission to abolish discrimination as she could help children that wish to become doctors with her knowledge as an executioner; Alain would later make Cécile happy again by writting her name on a blackboard, as she never had seen her own name before, before leaving to pick up clothing donated by the church.
After returning, Alain found his school engulfed in flames, all of the students had been burned alive, and one, Cécile, died trying to escape holding a blackboard on her hand, she had perfectly written her own name. De Luxe, admiring the view, poured salt on the wound by saying that the "maggots" at least had served to warm him in the cold weather. Confessing to have started the fire, fully-knowing that innocent children were inside, De Luxe escaped to Versailles but unfortunately for him, his unforgivable atrocity disgusted even another sociopath like Marie. Chasing De Luxe and his gang, Marie proposed the idea of slaughtering them to pieces, but to her surprise, the Actual Pacifist Alain stopped her, proclaiming that "Fighting with words in the court of the law is the way of the new world! A person killing another person is a savage act, that is not need in the world i seek!". Finally reaching De Luxe, Alain, unarmed and calm, sincerely asked for him to surrender, even if he had brutally killed all of the children that were under Alain's care, De Luxe's reaction? Repugnance by a Cafè Au Lait, a dirty red blood having the audacity to order someone like him, a noble blue blood. Alain proved himself to be too good for this world, as De Luxe proceeded to cowardly execute him with a pistol and impale his body with a sword possessing an aristocratic emblem, making him an example and a warning to all commoners: only the rich are worthy of prospering.
De Luxe was planned to be executed for the crime of murder, but thanks to his connections, he got away with everything; the fire was ruled as an accident and De Luxe had executed a rebel who was planning to overthrow the country, firing his gun in the heat of the moment when they got into an argument. The dead were not spoken of at all and De Luxe was seen as a "hero who saved France"; De Luxe personally refused to accept responsability for crimes, reflecting that if they want something to blame, they should blame the status they were born with. To celebrate his victory, De Luxe threw wine in the streets and watched as the "maggots" licked the ground, and "donated" one of his friends to the king, a beautiful chief mistress, to show his appreciation. It seemed that De Luxe had succeeded, but oh oh, Marie was out for revenge. Using a powerful hallucinatory agent on her lips, Marie kissed De Luxe at a party, which made him see the spirits of the children he had burned to death and confess to everything in front of the king, declaring that "Maggots cannot understand schooling! The cries and screams of those maggots burning alive were cries of joy!". Brought to a platform to be publicly executed, De Luxe tries to save his own skin by indicating his position as a noble and a "hero to this country", Marie replies by saying that unlike him, her blade doesn't discriminate between aristocrats and commoners, giving him a well-deserved decapitation and avenging both Alain and the orphans.
Freudian Excuse? Nope.
Heinous? Innocent is a dark and brutal world, we see that the Sansons are not afraid to use torture on their own children as a form of discipline, Marie was raped by an army general, and the country is ruled by hedonistic bastards such as Louis Phillipe, who created an excruciating method of execution which was doomed to fail because he simply wanted to see a "sea of blood". With that being said, we never got mass child murder via burning until De Luxe arrived and gave us the absolute worst act of malice in the first manga, surpassing all of the others before it.
Conclusion?
. I may have another candidate, but fuck this dude.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Apr 19th 2019 at 7:33:46 AM
Master Satan
Agronna Quinn
@Fried: Uh, I also want to see the Shazam sequel and I even mentioned it before...
Poplovic
De Luxe. Aristocrats Are Evil indeed (and a Hate Sink).
Edited by ACW on Apr 19th 2019 at 5:48:48 AM

I've requested the cut (and a change to Mr. Bartel from just Bartel).