During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
ACW: There's Something Ravok said awhile back about Donald Pierce from Logan I think would work for that scenario.
Ravok pointed out Donalds other crimes besides Participating in what happned to the kids weren't That unique. But they were essentially "The icing on the cake" for the Unique stuff he did do. I think that's a good way to do things.
Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 8th 2019 at 1:13:15 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
to Hang and Dolo.
Okay since there are some that are saying Augustine might qualify I’ve decided to EP her as a CM. I was reluctant at first but after looking back at my track record saying how I finally got Simmons approved and how Age managed to get Rais approved I think its worth a shot to EP Augustine here. So from inFAMOUS: Second Son, here my effort post for Brooke Augustine.
Who Is She? What Has She Done?
Brooke Augustine is a conduit that controls concrete, the Big Bad of inFAMOUS: Second Son, and the founder of the Department of Unified Protection (DUP) where she has hunted down almost all the conduits in America and kept them imprisoned in Curdun Cay.
When the conduits go under her custody she has them are inhumanly experimented on to the which one of her prisoners Hank describe as no way to live. She would also corrupt and manipulate them into becoming coldblooded killers with her most prominent example being Abigail “Fetch” Walker where she forced the girl to relive her horrible past where Shane trick her into killer her brother Brent, before bringing Shane to Fetch having her give Shane a slow and horrific death, thus making Augustine responsible for Fetch becoming a Serial Killer.
When the government decides to shut down the DUP and take the conduits under her captivity, Augustine gives Hank Daughtry the means to escape prison transportation where she captures Hank while Fetch, and Eugene go fleeing to Seattle which would lead to them especially Fetch to create many casualties there.
When Augustine demands to know the whereabouts of Fetch and Eugine from Delsin Rowe Augustine proceeds to use her concrete powers to torture Delsin beliving he know something before proceeding to torture all of Delsin’s tribe members before leaving them to suffer excruciating pain afterwards slowly dying from the concrete spikes on their bodies.
To find Augustine to get her powers to cure Delsin’s tribe, he and Reggie travel to Seattle where I would be revealed to have gotten complete control over city, oppressing everyone living there. Not only that but she has her escaped conduit inflict mass chaos in the city with Eugine kidnapping people, Fetch killing drug dealers, and orders Celia to commit brutal murders of people.
When Delsin Rowe becomes a hinderance to her plans, Augustine forces Hank to lure him and his brother Reggie into one of her hideouts by holding Hank’s daughter hostage where she then attempts to kill them, successfully killing Reggie. She would then go back on her word and have her men kill Hank and his daughter.
When Delsin finally confront Augustine for all the things that she’s done, the two duke it out for one last time before he finally manages to kill her where depending on his karma meter can either expose or kill her.
Freudian Excuse ? Redeeming Qualities?
Okay so the original reason why she did all this was that 7 years ago she was hunted down by the military for being a conduit so to appease with them she turns on Celia a girl she befriended, imprisoning her and handing her over to the military. This would develop a mindset that to protect conduits she would have to imprison them, thus founding the DUP for that purpose.
However as the years past by her morality severely depleted where all she now truly cares about is her position in power. The conduits she has imprisoned are subjected to inhumane conditions, horrific experimentation, and intense training, slowing chipping away at their sanity, corrupting them into becoming killing machines that Augustine merely views as tools for Augustine to use. Even the girl Augustine befriended becomes nothing more than a tool for her to use where Augustine severely corrupt the girl into becoming highly disturbed and have her go on a killing spree to kill innocents all while promote her DUP.
She also has no problem remorselessly killing conduits (the people she claims to be protecting) such as when she tries to have Delsin, Fetch, and Eugene killed and later has her men kill Hank when he is of no use to her. In the end, she’s become something like Koba in that she tries to justify her means but her cruel and remorseless acts toward everyone, including her own kind, has negated any sympathy from anyone, with Augustine becoming a Control Freak willing to commit atrocities just to keep her position in power and just as evil as those that tried to persecute her, if not even worse.
Heinousness
As the Big Bad Augustine sets the heinous standard of the game. Overall she’s one of the most heinous characters in the series imprisoning innocent people and experimenting and corrupting them on a grand scale, and forcibly take over and oppress the city of Seattle while having her conduits run rampant causes mass chaos and casualties in the city.
That’s not even getting to her willingness to subject numerous innocent people to torture methods of having concrete grow inside there bodies whether it be on there bones or organs and leave them to suffer excruciating pain once they have no use for them. Overall I think she’s cruel, sufficient, and unique enough to earn a past on the heinous standard.
Final Verdict?
I’ll leave that to you guys
Edited by G-Editor on Apr 7th 2019 at 10:20:01 PM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Hang, Brooke, and Golo.
Okay, two things. One, it's my birthday. Yay. Two, Fate/Grand Order officially announced am English CCC event, so that means I (or doineedaname but they've been MIA so...) can officially revisit Kiara
from long ago. Stay tuned on the 4/22.
Edited by erazor0707 on Apr 8th 2019 at 1:31:03 AM
Happy Birthday Erazor!
My legal birthday is on this coming Shabbat, the 13th.
Also, I think that the Mods should add the following lines (which I have bolded) to the laconic for complete monster.
The most heinous characters, played seriously with no redeeming or altruistic qualities, with crimes that set them apart from standard villains of the setting.
I am suggesting this addition to the laconic page because I want it to be understood by the idiots like myself that a monster has to distinguish themselves.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 8th 2019 at 5:18:18 AM
Happy Birthday Erzaor.
Above seems fine
.
Also can we please remove the Disney lines from the never again list.
Let me think on Brooke since it's late where I live. I know she's been downvoted but guys like Adler , Rais, Simmons have also gone up despite coming up a few times before thanks to a great ep. Let me think.
Edited by miraculous on Apr 8th 2019 at 2:23:33 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."I'm saying yes to Hang and Golo having seen the episodes myself. All the ridiculously petty Kick the Dog moments peppered in with the whole "living battery scheme" (plus the fact they're the only villains in the Ananke arc who seem to be presented as nasty enough to warrant a Karmic Death) easily push them up for me.
Nay to "Purity_Now." Brooke... I'll think on it.
Oh, happy birthday, Erazor.
Edited by Scraggle on Apr 8th 2019 at 3:31:06 AM
I’m in the middle of a Shaw Brothers marathon. As most of us know, the Brother Shaw have given us mainly martial arts flicks. However, they’ve also produced some very interesting films that combine multiple genres, such as horror, occult, and even Sentai.
Our first movie in this little marathon?
What Is the Work?
Human Lanterns is a 1982 horror martial arts film produced by the Shaw Brothers.
Master Lung and Master Tan are two Jerkass rulers who are at odds with each other. One day, Lung, in an attempt to outwit Tan in a lantern competition, relies on an old rival of his to craft him the perfect lantern. Afterwards, women close to Lung and Tan keep going missing, as well as several other people. Who’s responsible for this?
Who Is he?
Chao Chun-Fang is a twisted lantern crafter who moonlights as a masked Serial Killer who abducts women to flay them and use their skin for his lanterns.
What has he done?
Originally a mighty swordsman, Chun was once challenged by Lung in a sword duel that ended with Lung carving a scar upon Chun’s forehead. Pissed, Chun decided to give up on swordfighting and become a hermit lantern crafter, feeling that his life has been ruined. Harboring an immense hatred for Lung, he plotted for seven years to ruin his life once and for all, planning to kill anybody close to him, destroy his reputation, and erase his wealth. And just for good measure, he decided to also target Master Tan as well due to his closeness to Lung, plotting to manipulate the two into killing each other. Chun’s ultimate plan is to make all the “great heroes” lose everything in their life, just like what happened to him. If that makes him sound sympathetic, don’t hold your breath.
A student of lantern crafter Tsui, Tsui once told Chun the legend of someone who made lanterns out of human flesh. While Tsui and everyone else on lantern street knew that it was a legend, Chun began wondering if it was actually possible. Donning on a skull mask and his best Chewbacca costume, Chun roams the night a cackling kung fu master, kidnapping women, bringing them back to his basement workshop, and killing them. Afterwards, he flays them (sometimes while they're unconscious), uses their blood as paint, and decorates his workshop with the heads of his victims.
He kidnaps Yen-chu, Tan’s wife, in her room and brings her to his basement, but not before looking under her nightgown. At his workshop, Chun ties Yen up, strips her naked, gives her a huge gash on the top of her head that knocks her out. Ripping her skin off, he uses it to cast a lantern… but not without waking Yen up and taunting her by showing off her torn skin. Chun has Lung framed for the kidnapping. Later on, he kidnaps Tan’s sister (who I will refer to as Sister) while she’s out hunting, bringing her back to his workshop. Lung decides to investigate Chun’s shack, but doesn't decide to go inside the basement workshop, where Chun is holding Sister captive. Once Lung leaves, Chun decides to let Sister call for help, knowing that Lung is too far away to hear her cries. Preventing her from escaping, Chun tries to poison Sister, promising her that if she were to struggle she would die slowly and painfully, all while savoring her screams. When Sister escapes his grasp, Chun promises to let her go should she allow him to derive pleasure from her pain, rubbing some flayed skin onto her. But, he still ends up killing her regardless.
Working with an old assassin friend of his named Kwai Sze Yin (who was sent by Tan to kill Lung), Chun uses the assassin as a way to kidnap Chin, Lung’s wife. Later on when the assassin is killed by Tan, Chun attacks the people carrying away his body and hangs up their heads on display in the middle of lantern street for everyone to see. Later on, Tsui goes into Chun’s workshop while he’s working on his lanterns, and finds out about his materials… oh, and all the blood laying around. Chun responds to his fear by drowning him in his blood cauldron, afraid that Tsui would tell everyone his secret. Carving up his knife in preparation of skinning Chin alive, he tells her about all the pain he’s endured thanks to Lung ruining his life… only to then strip Chin naked and rape her, just so he can get some satisfaction out of destroying Lung’s precious wife before he kills her.
While trying to find Chun, Lung invades his basement, where he discovers four female lanterns made from the skin of the women he knew. Suddenly, Chun attacks, and they take the battle outside. Tan interferes and gets some good stabs on Chun. Unfortunately, Chun manages to fatal wound Tan, who dies after listening to Chun’s excuse. Chun cackles as he makes an escape, with Lung and Sergeant Poon’s men giving chase (Poon was originally hired by Tan to keep an eye out for Lung). Fighting Lung in a small cavern, Chun taunts Lung about the fact that he raped his wife before throwing a lit lantern onto him. This has a side effect of burning Chun alive, with Lung surviving his the flames. However, even after it’s all over, Lung is mentally scarred, dealing with burnt skin, and has lost most of his wealth. He has decided to retire as Master and travel the land in an attempt to calm his nerves, ordering Poon to give his remaining fortune to charity. So in a way Chun won, but he also didn’t.
Redeeming Qualities?
While Chun’s backstory involved having his life ruined by Lung, Chun didn’t have to become a serial killer who would go so far as to rape his enemy’s wife just to spite him, and he certainly didn’t have to go after Tan, who did nothing to him.
As for Chun’s assassin friend, Chun is never shown to care for him, and doesn’t react at all when hearing about his death, even calling him an “unskilled killer”. He essentially killed the pallbearers for fun, and to ruin Tan’s life.
Heinousness?
Serial Killer. Flayer. Sadist. Rapist. The only one in the movie.
Conclusion
I see him as a keep.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Apr 8th 2019 at 2:50:46 AM
It's Spooky Month!My problem is the MB post made Brooke seem like a WIE, and the concrete thing not sadistic enough; the CM post seems to contradict that.
I'll take care of the laconic addition and the administrivia Disney thing now.
EDIT: Chun lets Sister go?? Otherwise a yes (also, he throws a lantern...that ends up burning him. Idiot.).
Edited by ACW on Apr 8th 2019 at 5:49:30 AM
Thing about Brooke is she is a WIE in her own mind with everyone being able to see how much BS she's spitting but herself. If it wasn't for her being malicious throughout the whole game you'd almost think she was Obliviously Evil to Shou Tucker extremes.
She believes her own lies but nothing changes the fact her "protection" of the conduits revolve around torturing and enslaving them, enforcing her own propaganda. She goes out of her way to endanger human and conduit alike because she refuses to fathom a world where the two can co-exist. Which is why the good ending involves letting her live; they make it clear that forcing her to live and see a world of peace is her idea of Hell.
She is mortified that humans and conduits can co exist because it goes against her absolute worldview.
Edited by Beast on Apr 8th 2019 at 4:56:12 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."![]()
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Yeah I did mention that in the MB forum as it seemed to be her original goal, but as I said in her CM post by the time we see her in the present she's just using that as an excuse to justify her actions and now only care about keeping her authority and position in power uncaring if this leads to innocent casualties including conduits. Also Augustine having concrete spike protrude out of the bones and organs of the innocent people she has torture is still uniquely cruel, even if she's doing it extract information from Delsin and leaves them at that excruciating state once they are of no use for her. Brooke Augustine is a very complex villain of one of my favorite, but I think that actions toward people are just cruel enough to make her stand out, while going from a Well-Intentioned Extremist to a Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist and might be one of those uncommon CM/MB crossovers (in my opinion).
to Chao Chun-Fang
Edited by G-Editor on Apr 8th 2019 at 12:12:57 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
to Chun.
Its worth noting, I wouldn't call Brook "one of the few" CM/MB Crossovers. While there still not the usual, there are still plenty of crossovers at this point(Sigma,Anarky, Stem, Darkseid, Hans Gruber, Makishima, ETC)there not Common but not as rare as they used to be.
Things are really about to get Fun around here

to Hang and Golo.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."