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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#157202: Apr 7th 2019 at 6:55:09 PM

"Styx and stones will break my bones, but words will never harm me".[tup]

IPP Wick Check created.
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#157203: Apr 7th 2019 at 7:03:10 PM

[up][up][up]Looking forward to it.

[tup] for Styx BTW.

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#157204: Apr 7th 2019 at 7:05:51 PM

[tup] Styx

HBD and add me into the rewording that Disney bit. Feels silly when we have a plethora of kid's shows with C Ms.

Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#157205: Apr 7th 2019 at 7:17:24 PM

[tup] Styx.

How about this as a replacement section?

"Note that many works intended for young or family audiences may have a lower internal and/or genre heinous standard than that of Real Life or an equivalent setting, so it may be harder for such works' candidates to count."

This is bearing in mind the ideas of external, internal, and genre consistency seen on the Consistency page. The page's "Heinousness" and "Exceptionalism" folders suggest this too.

I'd also support just trashing the line as redundant with the above folders.

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#157207: Apr 7th 2019 at 7:22:32 PM

I also tried reading a Which Way book, a one time competitor to Choose Your Own Adventure, but with even more focus on horror and fantasy.

I remember this one [1] from when I was a kid, pretty creepy, it features an evil slime monster that enslaves a town and turns everyone into creepy evil zombies and it also features a mad doctor. Sadly no one counts, the slime monster has no personality and the mad doctor wants to harvest organs to resurrect his dead son into a monster body. But that book was still pretty scary for a kids book, you have evil townspeople trying to rip you apart, they also feed you to a slime blob in one ending and the mad doctor harvests your organs in one ending, so these books are pretty hardcore for kids entertainment. So you could have some keepers from that series too and Which Way featured one Batman book and 2 Star Trek books.

Edited by Overlord on Apr 7th 2019 at 7:27:00 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#157209: Apr 7th 2019 at 8:14:51 PM

Having done the effort posts on a few characters from it, I would also suggest everyone try out the Lone Wolf series of adventure books if you enjoy Fighting Fantasy. The villains and monsters are they best part of the series, and you can even read them all online for free.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#157210: Apr 7th 2019 at 8:45:18 PM

[tup]Styx

Also yeah please change the Disney stuff to brainulator's post. It seems a bit odd when like most CM's from western animation are from kids shows.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#157211: Apr 7th 2019 at 9:18:06 PM

[tup][tup][tup] To that rewording by Brainulator

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#157212: Apr 7th 2019 at 9:43:00 PM

[tup] to changing the Disney stuff to Brainulator's rewording.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#157213: Apr 7th 2019 at 9:49:12 PM

[up][up][up] Well animation in the west is generally for kids and animated shows for adults are usually comedy series that don't take anything very seriously.

Edited by papyru30 on Apr 7th 2019 at 10:49:23 AM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#157215: Apr 7th 2019 at 9:53:26 PM

Okay so I’ve just EP’d Brooke Augustine from inFAMOUS: Second Son in the MB forum and think I’ve come across someone from that game that might count as a CM from the Paper Trail DLC so lets talk about that

What The Work?

Paper Trail is a DLC story taking place after the main game. The basic story consist of Delsin Rower trying to solve a series of gruesome murders and some of them are committed by the this unnamed man who calls himself "Purity_Now".

Who Is He? What Has He Done?

"Purity_Now" is the ringleader of a group of extremist leading them to commit a series of gruesome murders. He would have people who he believe are conduits to be tied up in trash bags then have his men beat them up to death as they plea for their lives before leaving their bodies inside the trash bags like "trash ready to be burned”.

What’s even worse is that "Purity_Now" to video tape these horrific acts and post them on an online forum labeled "funny videos" for everyone to see and is revealed to have a body count of at least 15 innocent people whom he claimed to be conduits while conniving others post videos of them killing people that they believe were conduits.

He then makes a deal with a DUP soldier to get a list of conduits, intending to use the list to kill more people. Luckily Delsin Rowe was able to track him down to end his murder spree. Rather than face Delsin Rowe head on however, he decides to kill himself so he doesn't have to face justice for his murders.

Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?

Nothing is known about the guy other than he’s a sadistic and racist prick who gets off murdering 15 innocent people for kicks and that he would rather kill himself than face justice for what he’s done. So yeah none.

Heinousness

Compared to Joseph or even Shane, the latter of which is just a human, "Purity_Now" is just a regular human who has far less resources, but with what he does have he manages to commit over a dozen murders while posting their horrible death online for everyone to see.

There also the conduit Celia also from Paper Trail whose also murders people to frame Fetch and Eugine, but she had a Dark and Troubled Past that really messed her up and her body count seems smaller compered to the ring leader.

In all I for the limited screen time he has think the ring leader is uniquely awful just enough to get a pass.

Final Verdict

I’ll leave that to you guys

[down] Augustine's a super powered conduit and the head of a federal government agency, while the ringleader's just a normal human being with much less resources, so resource cant be compared. That said I just EP'd her at the MB forum, but I might also think about EPing her as a CM here since she does meet the heinous standard. If everything works great I might have a CM/MB crossover.

Edited by G-Editor on Apr 7th 2019 at 10:53:29 PM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#157216: Apr 7th 2019 at 10:03:31 PM

I'm going to abstain on the ringleader since my lack of familiarity with the other Infamous games makes me hesitant about voting him up just in case he's outclassed by people in the other games. And while it's not making me abstain, it just feels weird getting him and some drug trafficker up as Complete Monsters... and not the utter sociopath known as Brooke Augustine. I hate the fact that my first effortpost was me sloppily making a case for her and failing because I'd be more than willing to bring her up for re-litigation since I feel enough is shown to prove that she's full of shit as far as good intentions/benevolence goes... but she's been voted down one other time and I don't think I have anything new to bring to the table. So she'll always be the one that got away for me. just bugs mejust bugs mejust bugs me

But I can give an easier yes to Styx and... honestly, I don't feel Disney as a whole even needs a spot on the Never Again list. A few individual villains maybe but certainly not the entire franchise.

Edited by FriedWarthog on Apr 7th 2019 at 10:04:46 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#157219: Apr 7th 2019 at 11:17:38 PM

Sure to the Ringleader I guess?

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#157220: Apr 7th 2019 at 11:19:43 PM

[tup] Styx.

I'd just trash the line for Disney myself.

Ringleader...eh, I dunno, when you're in the same series as Joseph and Shane...

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#157221: Apr 7th 2019 at 11:24:53 PM

[tup] to Ringleader.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#157223: Apr 8th 2019 at 6:22:42 AM

I know the ringleader may be lower-resourced, but even so, the 2 current keepers seem FAR worse.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#157224: Apr 8th 2019 at 6:30:21 AM

[tup] Ringleader.

I was thinking of revisiting Augstine myself if I could have thought of something new with her. I just have doubts the Insane Troll Logic or Believing Their Own Lies argument will hold up, and that's all I got for when I brought her up in 2015.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."

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