During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
It isn't just that She is Aware of what she's doing. She goes out of her way to be worse.
From trying to get the Lobotomized Boris to Kill Henry so that Henry would be killed by his friend. To mocking Henry about Boris getting tortured. To having Henry break Bendys cut outs only to reveal Bendy hates that after he's done(Almost getting him killed by bendy in the process) to Outright trolling Henry by Appearing to give him a Gun to Defend himself only to reveal its fake. Laughing at you during all of it.
Every time She has a Oppurtunity to be even a teeny, weeny bit worse, She takes it.
Things are really about to get Fun around hereI don't think that comparing her to Pinbacker is valid. He's completely delusional and believes that god told him to kill humanity and that doing so will take them to heaven. Susie simply is in it for herself, she wants to be beautiful in order to fuel her ego and doesn't care about who she hurts to accomplish that goal. Also who's Bernard?
Okay, I don't know how to make this anymore clear: every thing I look up about her indicates her agency is jacked to hell off what she went through and one of the arguments for her inclusion was a comparison to the Governor and his split personality, which doesn't work and never should have as that character has been since cut. I'm not upvoting her.
Bernard is from The Last Heist.
Edited by 43110 on Apr 2nd 2019 at 9:54:04 AM
I downvoted her once and i'm going to downvote her again.
Like i said many times before, Susie was a mentally ill, frustated woman who got caught in a supernatural conspiracy and was turned into a literal monster against her will. She was not right in the head and the Ink Machine just made her even worse.
She's a hundred times more Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds than a Complete Monster.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Apr 2nd 2019 at 11:02:18 AM
Kylo, we cut the Governor because he was someone with redeeming qualities who gained a secondary personality that had no redeeming qualities but lacked agency due to being something he made up in his head. I don’t know how much clearer I can make this...
Edit: Screw it, whoever wants to vote, vote and let’s move on.
Edited by 43110 on Apr 2nd 2019 at 10:14:13 AM
This is the last thing I will say on the matter for now. Allison Angel is completely sane despite being an ink monster so that isn't a valid excuse. We have approved other characters who are mentally unwell due to some kind of messed up experiments such as Kefka. She goes out of her way to be as petty and cruel as she can and goes way beyond anything that can be justified by her backstory.
I just found the original post
, we cut him for redeeming features not agency.
Edited by papyru30 on Apr 2nd 2019 at 8:17:06 AM
Honestly, the fact that she was still tricked into becoming what she was due to Joey Drew still makes her too much of a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds. Kind of reminds me of something I will be discussing Friday.
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Not really I'll admit, every character that we meet in person is a product of Drew's experiments. Allison, Tom, and the Boris from chapter 3 are all sane and friendly. Some of the characters are more monstrous and insane than others but Susie is largely on the saner side of things all things considered.
Edited by papyru30 on Apr 2nd 2019 at 8:33:55 AM
With this, I think in Susie's case, it more falls in line with her getting corrupted by the ink rather than for something like say where Lord Commander where so far, he is Drunk on the Dark Side with full understanding of his actions and actively rejects his previous life. With Susie, I don't see that as her embracing what she had become.
Joey Didn't intend for her to Become..Like that. When we hear the Casette tape on there Conversation, while Manipulation was at Play he didn't lie to her(In that specific circumstance) he made it clear he was going to make her into a Cartoon charachter if she Agreed. What went wrong was the fact she was Deformed, We find out that he never Thogut Any of this would happen and was Horrified when he saw what the Ink Machine did. To the Point where he Became The Atoner.
Plus, she ultimately became just as Manipulative as Joey was, but even more Cruel. Tricking Henry and Boris into helping her before Torturing and Lobotomizing Boris into a Monster. Then getting him to Kill his Friend.
Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 2nd 2019 at 7:41:27 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around hereAbstain on Susie. I know jackshit about Bendy and the Ink Machine.
Also, I know that we agreed that it was pointless to put Nui on never again and all, but even disregarding that, when the fuck did she have any Jerkass Woobie moments? She's no CM, but I don't recall any moment where she anywhere close to sympathetic.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Apr 2nd 2019 at 10:44:16 AM
It was Just the thing about saying Joey "Tricked her into becoming what she was" Seamt to Imply he Tricked her into becoming a Monster.
Once more, we have other charachters who also had to deal with Joeys actions and Manipulations and either not become Evil or Lacked her Sadism.
My main Point is that she ends up doing everything Joey did to her but Worse. MUCH worse. What happned to her Sucked certainly but she goes far beyond any sense of Justification.
Things are really about to get Fun around hereYou could say the same for a majority of villains who are Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds. Their quest for revenge would be disproportionate, but at the center of it, their actions would fall in line with the Freudian Excuse.
We've been over this multiple times on the thread. Whether or not something is justified, that doesn't inherently negate the disqualifying factors. Want to know something that's unjustified? Helmut Zemo detonating a bomb that killed a dozen people because the Avengers indirectly caused the death of his family. Or Martin Li trying to unleash a deadly disease throughout the city because Norman Osborn caused his parent's deaths.
Their excuses don't justify their actions. But they do prevent them from being CMs.
I guess, my main issue is....That stuff dosent really fall in line with her Excuse. She's Pointlessly Cruel most of the time, particularly with the Stuff she does in Chapter 4. And even with the stuff that IS necessary for her plan she's a gigantic Sadist about it.
that's different though. Those guys are trying to Avenge Loved ones and Has some redeeming Qualites nowadays. Susie only cares about the things that happened to HER. And has zero redeeming Qualites today.
Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 2nd 2019 at 8:07:35 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around hereI'm not saying that to negate their actions. The Freudian Excuse explains their actions.

Gala.
Why so serious?