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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#156451: Apr 2nd 2019 at 5:19:16 PM

Absolutely cut Campbell and restating my frustration that she went up at all when myself and others made these exact concerns about her clear when she was originally EP'd.

IukaSylvie from Kyoto, Japan Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#156452: Apr 2nd 2019 at 5:20:56 PM

Administrivia.Complete Monster edit request:

Definitely not a CM

  • Kill la Kill:
    • Nui Harime: Even disregarding the fact that most of her actions come from orders by Ragyo Kiryuin, she's Made of Evil, has Jerkass Woobie moments and fails the heinous standard compared to Ragyo Kiryuin.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#156453: Apr 2nd 2019 at 5:21:29 PM

I'm saying "cut" Angel unless a good counterargument's made here. There seem to be more people concerned for agency rather than subscribing to the notion she has it (a stance that seems mostly based on conjecture and assumption, from what I've read up).

[up] We don't need the addition. Nui is nowhere near the epidemic problem others on that list is—we use the NA list as a last resort.

Edited by Scraggle on Apr 2nd 2019 at 6:22:18 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#156454: Apr 2nd 2019 at 5:22:22 PM

I.... Dont quite think that Nui needs to be put on the Never Again list due to most people in the thread never brought her up and we definitely know she wasnt a CM from the get-go.

Seriously, the NA list sometimes gave me a bit of a headache

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Apr 2nd 2019 at 7:22:40 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#156455: Apr 2nd 2019 at 5:22:46 PM

No to adding Nui, she hasn't been an issue since the show ended over five years ago now.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#156456: Apr 2nd 2019 at 5:29:19 PM

Yeah we don't need to add Nui since we're all in agreement that she doesn't count.

Also I'm okay with cutting Susie

Edited by G-Editor on Apr 2nd 2019 at 2:40:35 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#156457: Apr 2nd 2019 at 5:32:08 PM

I'm fine with cutting Campbell all things considered.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#156458: Apr 2nd 2019 at 5:33:31 PM

Likewise, if that stuff is true.

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Birdy18 Birdygamer from Home Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Singularity
Birdygamer
#156460: Apr 2nd 2019 at 5:45:37 PM

So you want me to cut Susie?

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#156461: Apr 2nd 2019 at 5:48:29 PM

What's she sitting at for votes now factoring in the original ones and any who may have just flipped/added themselves to the 'against' side?

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#156462: Apr 2nd 2019 at 5:52:26 PM

I had been Anticipating Arguments against Alice. I'll admit I wasn't expecting those though

1.Offscreen Villainy isn't an issue cause we vividly see all the Vivisected Boris corpses outside her Lab.

2.I'm gonna assume when you say Demon you mean Ink Mutant. What about both the Boris's we see? Or even the Other Alice? None of them are evil. Even the Ink Creatures who ARE evil simply lack Consciousness(An issue Susie very much lacks) or do what they do cause they Think that Bendy will give them there body back. I anticipated Concerns about her Freudian Excuse but this is just weird.

3.I just don't understand this. What do you mean she dosent stand out? I'm Geniunly curious

Edited by Kylotrope on Apr 2nd 2019 at 5:53:50 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#156464: Apr 2nd 2019 at 6:01:19 PM

Who else is familiar with the work?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#156465: Apr 2nd 2019 at 6:02:38 PM

Well, I have seen the work, but I felt that it leans too further into ambiguity moreso than the FNAF series.

Edited by AustinDR on Apr 2nd 2019 at 6:02:56 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#156466: Apr 2nd 2019 at 6:05:06 PM

Every bit of research I do on this indicates to me that she's too much of a nut bar.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#156467: Apr 2nd 2019 at 6:07:06 PM

Yes. Thinking about it, what makes her too far gone is the fact that Joey Drew tricked her into sacrificing herself to the machine. So, really, it's Joey's fault for her mental condition.

AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#156468: Apr 2nd 2019 at 6:08:19 PM

I'll say 'cut' to Campbell.

One more New 52 villain for now, from Mother Panic.

Who is Gala? What has she done?

Gala is a Mad Artist Serial Killer, and the Arch-Enemy of Violet Paige, who makes "commissions" for those with specific tastes, which involve murder and blood.

Having made a name for herself by killing people and painting with their blood, using their bones for sculptures and such, Gala is introduced slashing a man's throat to splatter a canvas, lamenting that she can't flay him alive like she wants because his thrashing around would ruin the "style" of the art.

Doing another "commission" for the despicable sexual predator and socialite Fred Hemsley, Gala kidnaps around a dozen children and puts them through abuse and trauma before chaining them up in a bright room designed to look like Heaven, dressed as angels, conditioned to worship Hemsley as if he is "God".

When Violet investigates the kidnappings and tracks down the children, Gala sets the building aflame to kill the children to preserve her artistic vision, but Violet saves the kids while Gala slips away.

Later revealed to have been an associate and backer of the child torturing and experimentation organization known as "Gather House" who now controls one of the brainwashed children, Jane, Gala is next seen having gutted a man and using his intestines for a new painting.

Luring Violet into a trap, Gala begins torturing her while having Jane kill another man for a new art project, before ordering Jane to kill Violet, who used to be a close friend of hers, to finish "severing her ties" to her humanity.

Violet breaks free and mortally wounds Jane, however Gala manages to escape, seemingly with Jane in tow.

Does Gala have a Freudian Excuse or other mitigating factors?

No excuses, she just is an artistic lunatic. She treats Jane as an apprentice but nothing more, no care for her when she gets severely wounded and there's no confirmation that she is the one who dragged her away from the scene.

Is Gala sufficiently heinous?

Yes. She's easily the worst person in the Mother Panic comic, and though it is connected to the wider DC New 52 continuity, she still passes with several onscreen murders, many more evidenced by various artworks of hers, and her entire scheme of using children to satisfy a pedophile's fantasies before burning them alive is a unique bit of evil.

Final Verdict?

[tup]

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#156471: Apr 2nd 2019 at 6:13:46 PM

Yes there is stuff Ambiguous about the Game. Hence why Bendy was voted down as alot of the stuff about him wasn't clear.

But all the Above(Us seeing Those vivisected Boris Corpses, as well as us meeting the Heroic Alice and Boris) happen onscreen and aren't Thrown into question.

On the stuff about her Mental state and Joey, THOSE are both things I anticipated and I understand if she'd be cut for that. The stuff Birdy brought up just Confused me.

Anyway, I still don't think those are issues cause we see OTHER charachters who Legitimately are "Insane"(Bertrum Piedmont, Sammy Lawrence, or Most of the Searchers) But Susie is completely Differant from them as Susie is a Petty, Petty Sadist. Every other charachters who went through what she did lacks both her Massive Pettiness and her VICIOUS sadism

Also [tup] to Gala.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#156472: Apr 2nd 2019 at 6:19:12 PM

[tup] to Gala

I'll just abstain on Susie

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#156473: Apr 2nd 2019 at 6:21:56 PM

[tup] Gala, does that pedophile have a chance of counting at all?

I still agree with Kylo. We see characters who have been turned into ink monsters who are still sane and moral and she's very clearly aware of what she's doing.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#156474: Apr 2nd 2019 at 6:27:51 PM

I'll say yeah to Gala and I'll concur the Offscreen Villainy shit isn't so much of a worry for me with Susie as is that every bit of info-digging I do indicates her insanity is of the Pinbacker or Bernard variety, as opposed to the Patrick Bateman-type: sticking to my no.

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#156475: Apr 2nd 2019 at 6:28:55 PM

[tup] Gala

I really don't know how Susie even went up to begin with, so i'd fine with cutting her.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Apr 2nd 2019 at 10:29:04 AM


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