During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes to both of Scraggle's there. Nice to see those, to say the least.
Wild Child
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Zurich and Nalin.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Here is the Carnevil playthrough.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Moriarty a.k.a. André Belpois, Jeremie's Evil Uncle and, from the Code Lyoko fanfiction The Games of Moriarty, is Franz Hopper's former colleague, and could qualify in my eyes. And he starts from the beginning with his Establishing Character Moment :
- He subjects the Lyoko-warriors to horrible choices the second he appears :
- Starting with Jeremie, he forces him to save only one Lyoko-warrior while the others are killed by Moriarty. Jeremie pulls an enormous Loophole Abuse and saves William by using Odd's old teleportation program, thus teleporting him inside a tower and preventing him from being killed by Moriarty's monsters. He then proceeds to save Ulrich, Yumi (from a fiery death) and Odd (from being electrocuted) by setting off the fire alarms, thus alerting them and finally goes to save Aelita himself. In other words, Jeremie saved everyone.
- He then proceeds with Yumi, forcing her to choose is going to die: Her boyfriend Ulrich or her little brother. Refusing to chose means killing them both. Yumi, utterly broken, choses Ulrich. Fortunately, since Moriarty needs towers to attack, much like XANA, Aelita deactivates the tower before Moriarty kills Ulrich.
- Ulrich is the next victim. Moriarty forces him to choose between killing the team's "traitor" - who turns out to be Yumi, who was forced to try to kill him anyway - or choosing the wrong person, in which case everyone but Ulrich and the "traitor" dies. Ulrich chooses a Third Option and asks Moriarty to kill him. Before Moriarty could do it, however, William - who wasn't with the others and who Ulrich contacted without Moriarty knowing - shut down the supercomputer, thus stopping Moriarty's game and saving everyone.
- Moriarty's next target is Aelita. Her choice? Either she destroys a program preventing Moriarty from accessing Sector 5 or she is forced to watch as Moriarty kills Aelita's father Franz Hopper (whom Moriarty saved in order to use him as leverage). Believing that her father would have done everything to stop Moriarty (and she was right), Aelita doesn't destroy the program, and is being forced to watch as Moriarty kills what remains of her father.
- Odd is the one following. This one is surprisingly simple : Either Odd inserts a virus in the supercomputer that will screw it up for months (thus allowing Moriarty to gain power) or Moriarty will give evidence to the police to arrest him for underage driving (which Odd actually did). Odd choses to put the virus, but is stopped in time.
- Lastly, William. He forces him either to retire from being a Lyoko-warrior and kill another Lyoko-warrior of his choice, or to fight his Xanafied self, (If William loses the fight, everyone dies) all the while taunting William about how he is the weakest link of the team. William chooses to fight, breaks Moriarty by explaining how he is actually his biggest threat (when he was possessed by XANA, William and XANA's monsters curb-stomped and came close to killing Moriarty several times ; on top of that, William starts to remember what he did when he was possessed, giving him much more experience in fighting Moriarty), and wins the fight fair and square, thus saving everyone and beating Moriarty's game.
This is not even half of the first chapter. Seriously.
After previously giving power to Odd in order to drive him mad with this power (which leads to the Lyoko-warriors kicking Odd out of the team) , Moriarty brainwashes him and turns him into his Dragon. He then activates a tower, and then has Odd defeats them, just to show them their failure in handling him. Until he's freed from Moriarty's control, Odd is often used in Moriarty's mind games on Lyoko with the Lyoko-warriors, often reminding them of their failure with him.
On Earth it isn't better. Moriarty forces Ulrich to face his vertigo by forcing him to climb up an enormous ladder in order to save Yumi and William from an exploding boiler. Even when he succeeds, Moriarty tries to kill him and William out of spite. He later hacks Kadic Academy in order to gain access to the students' entire personal information, including the heroes'. He uses it in his next attack, forcing Yumi to face her fears of snake to save a mortally wounded Ulrich, surrounded by possessed venomous snakes.
He mind rapes Jeremie by showing him the future under his rule. This indirectly leads to Jeremie's Start of Darkness, which starts with him freeing XANA from William's mind in order to kill Moriarty (however, since XANA was much closer to succeeds in conquering the world than Moriarty, XANA was briefly the main threat, forcing the other Lyoko-warriors to team up with Moriarty to take it down) and ends with him briefly becoming a megalomaniac more dangerous than Moriarty and almost starting a nuclear war.
He also creates evil twins of the Lyoko-warriors (barring Odd) both to fight them on equal grounds and to torture them psychologically on Lyoko. It is later revealed that he uses a "treatment" on Odd when the good Odd tries to fight from the inside, a "treatment" so horrifying even the Brainwashed and Crazy Odd fears it.
Once Odd is finally freed from his control (but has severe PTSD due to the "treatment") , Moriarty creates a synthetic body on Earth and "replaces" history teacher Mr. Fumet in Kadic Academy. His very presence in the school scares Odd into living in the factory, and Moriarty clearly enjoys it.
The following attack includes possessing Yumi (since it isn't XANA, but Moriarty's specters, the Lyoko-warriors - barring William, thanks to XANA living inside of him - aren't immune to it) when she was forced to go to him in order to have an extra credit (due to a bad grade in history) , having her almost cheating on Ulrich with an unwilling William, attempting to kill Odd, and finally trolling Yumi by giving her the extra credit once Aelita stops the attack. He later burns to a crisp two men in black (out of hate for what they did to Anthea, who used to be his girlfriend before becoming Franz Hopper's wife and Aelita's mother) with Yumi watching the whole scene. He then briefly possess Ulrich and turns him into his second Dragon before he is quickly saved by the heroes. He then brainwashes Kadic Academy's entire board of trustees (barring Ulrich's father) in order to gain power in the school.
His next attack is to hack prisons, freeing the prisoners (10% of the prison population... All in Paris), and later possess them, while also showing to Jeremie a clip of Aelita cheating on him with Odd. He then brainwashes the prisoners and have them taking hostage Kadic Academy. In order to be seen as a hero, his synthetic body on Earth then proceeds to kill most of the prisoners in order to "save" everyone. This allows Moriarty to gain fame in the entire country. With his newfound fame, he completely takes over Kadic Academy.
With his following attack, he goes back to his old Sadistic Choice formula, forcing Yumi, Ulrich and William in a swimming pool to either electrocute those swimming - which would save those who aren't - or not to do it, in which case Moriarty kills everyone in the pool by using carbon monoxide. All of this simply out of hate for Yumi who defied him in class. He also hacks the Return to the Past protocol in order to prevent the heroes from repairing any damage done by his attacks.
When the heroes finds Moriarty's emotional cortex in the Digital Sea, they proceed to torture him emotionally (Not that he hasn't deserved it), only stopping when they realize they're hurting Odd as well (who kept as psychic connection with Moriarty even after his possession). After that, Moriarty turns most of the school against the heroes, by saying that they're suspicious. Moriarty replies to his previous Mind Rape with one of his worst attacks by far : Spreading a deadly flu in the entire city, in order to kill most of the students he doesn't need and keeping alive those that can be useful. He attempts to kill an infected William, only stopping when Odd's clone threatens to kill an infected Emmanuel (whom Moriarty uses as a tool). 40 people died from the flu.
After a bad class experiment on communism he started after the swimming pool attack, he follows with a fascist class experiment. He then creates a fascist group inside the school called The Order.
His next attack is to possess Odd's clone in order to kill Odd, all the while taunting him with his PTSD.
He later starts to spread the Order all over France, in order to gain even more fame. He also has Herb burns down the Ermitage (Aelita's old home, which also means sentimental value) with Aelita and Jeremie watching, to ensure that Jeremie doesn't find anything inside that could defeat him. He then kidnaps Natalya (Who recently joined the team and is William's Russian girlfriend) and forces William to fight him on Earth (otherwise he kills Natalya). On top of that, the Order starts to become violent against pretty much anyone who hasn't joined them, not that Moriarty cares. When Odd humiliates him, Moriarty attempts to indirectly kill an innocent student by using his chocolate allergy, all so he could show Odd what he was going to do to him. The student is only saved at the last minute. When a man in black attempts to kill him, Moriarty kidnaps him and tortures him in order to learn the whereabouts of the others men in black (Les Invisibles). When the man finally breaks and tells him, Moriarty brainwashes armed people and storms Les Invisibles' HQ, with the intent of killing everyone. When he is done, he burns down the building, with his men inside it, because they're no longer useful.
He then turns Emmanuel into his Dragon and has him defeats the Lyoko-warriors several times, as they're forced to hold back against him (if Emmanuel is devirtualized, he dies). During that time:
- He brainwashes an Arab and has him becoming a suicide-bomber in a bus. Everyone inside the bus died.
- He also forces the Lyoko-warriors to chose between deactivating 2 towers : The first one is linked to a bomb inside the Japanese embassy, the second one is linked to one inside the Russian embassy. When at first sight, the heroes deactivated the tower linked to the Japanese embassy, Moriarty had purposefully given Yumi the wrong tower to bomb connections for the sole purpose of making the heroes destroy the location that they most wanted to save. All of this attack out of hate for Yumi.
- "In approximately twenty minutes a lone gunman will walk onto a cluster of soccer fields on the east side of the city. Two towers are activated on opposite ends of the Mountain Sector. Control of the specter switches back and forth between the two towers at a rate of 0.3 seconds. If you choose the one at the southern end, he will fire into a group of twenty five young adults from the amateur men's division. If you choose the one at the northern end, he will fire into a group of ten eight-year olds practicing for a primary school league." Aelita deactivates the southern tower but is devirtualized by Emmanuel before she can deactivate the other tower, thus sealing the fate of the adult group.
- He blows up a subway train when the heroes fail again. 60 people died.
He then frames the Muslims for these attacks, having a non-existent group called "Islamic Republic of France" claiming responsibility for the attacks. This leads to The Order and far-right groups attacking the Muslims even more.
When Odd (whom Moriarty brainwashed, to remind you) extends an olive branch to Moriarty, the latter refuses it, thus killing any hope of redemption.
In his next attack, he has the Order purposefully marching in Clichy-sous-bois, while a possessed policeman is about to shoot an innocent (which, knowing the neighborhood's history, would leads to chaos) and all the while fully aware that Order members are going to get caught in the following crossfire. This time however, Christophe (who joined the team at the same time as Natalya) kills Emmanuel (it's later revealed that he survived), thus allowing Aelita to deactivate the tower and to save the day.
His ultimate plan? When the Eurovision will take place in Paris, Jean-Marie Le Pen and his daughter Marine will be there. Since they are Moriarty's only obstacle for garnering the full support of the far-right, as the Director says : "Moriarty will kill them and other innocents in the arena, with the world watching in horror. The consequences of such an attack will finally set France over the edge of no return. Extremism will take root in the nation and Moriarty will be the only light shining in the darkness". Once he becomes president, he will have access to the Harbinger, the world's most dangerous weapon, a super-virus capable of screwing up the entire Internet overnight, which would allow Moriarty to take over the world in a day. He's eventually defeated by the heroes, imprisoned and later killed by one of his own followers who believed he was an impostor.
- Heinousness : Moriarty succeeded in being an opponent who surpasses XANA (who, in the main series, is already a Complete Monster to remind you) in terms of evil by the first chapter (something lampshaded by Jeremie, XANA's Arch-Enemy to remind you). He has a Freudian Excuse but here I explain in this link why it ultimately doesn't cut it.
- Redeeming qualities : by the time the story starts, he has only one : he's a man of his word. And even this one is later averted in the first chapter, when he attempts to kill William after the boiler event (despite the fact that Ulrich won his game fair and square). When he teams up with the Lyoko-warriors, it's only because of a threat much greater, and not out of kindness. Others redeeming qualities are shown in flashbacks, but he lost all of them before the story even starts.
- Conclusion : A mass-murdering psychopath, not even politeness and charisma hides Moriarty's desires to humiliate, torture and destroy ennemy, ally and innocent alike.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Jan 2nd 2020 at 11:12:51 AM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
No issues with Moriarty above
Lore: Noted. I'll check those out, thankya. I'll also do some research of Rajaat just in case. I hear he's crazy nasty as well in the Troy Denning series, so possible he could count there.
Now, for this one:
what's the work?
John Dies at the End is a novel by David Wong. To quote the tropes page: "Dave and John are two college dropouts living in the middle of an "Undisclosed" town in Illinois. John is a deranged, irresponsible, carefree, slacker/rocker/drug enthusiast. Dave is an apathetic, bored, snarky withdrawn young man with a traumatic past and the tendency to get dragged along with whatever John happens to be doing. After a run-in with a living hallucinogenic drug at a party, the pair gain the ability to see ghosts, demons, and into other dimensions." It's a surprisingly good novel with a surprisingly nasty villain. Enter...Korrok.
Who is Korrok?
A bioengineered, organic supercomputer, which gained sentience in another dimension and gained one hell of a nasty personality. Korrok is a vicious, sadistic monster with....a juvenile sense of humor. Think a sadistic 13 year old as an Eldritch Abomination Lovecraftian God who reigns over an entire universe/dimension. got that? Korrok took over its home dimension and instituted a system of horrific torture and death, having countless people fed to it. Korrok devours entire worlds at times, keeping the populations roiled in agony within it...and sometimes for kicks, it has them wrapped in bacons first before it devours them. Now, Korrok, unsatisfied with just one dimension, wants to breach into others, and it does this by utilizing its 'chosen.' Korrok breaches the gates and has its 'Chosen Ones' summon it forth, which lead to Korrok spreading its tyranny and torture there, but it uses Puppeter Parasite to infest others and then spreads that through the worlds so Korrok is able to manifest....those parasites are flesh eating monsters that spread through the world.
Anyways, John and David end up stopping a potential invasion of Korrok in Las Vegas by driving off his 'demons,' in truth the parasite-infested creatures, and take a look into Korrok's home dimension which is derisively titled 'shit Narnia' where its supposedly a happy wonderland...but is in truth a monstrous tyranny where people are sacrificed routinely....Korrok also loves screwing with people there, as you can guess. Oh, and people are regularly disposed of and replaced with clones to infiltrate other universes for Korork to devour.
Once they figure out what's going in, David and John are ready to strike back and use the Soy Sauce to design a bomb capable of destroying even Korrok's home dimension...the twist, btw? John doesn't die at the end. David dies halfway through and is a Korrok clone...but chooses to still fight for the side of good. With the help of their dog Molly, Dave and John encounter Korrok and end up using the bomb (after Molly accidentally eats it and...'relieves' it out, which ends up strengthening it, yes this book is weird), use the bomb to blow up Korrok's dimension and Korrok with it....though it's ambiguous if this is truly Korrok's end with all the parallel dimension stuff going on.
Heinousness?
Obliterates the standard, worst in the series by far.
Mitigating Qualities?
Korrok is a biocomputer with a nasty sense of humor and full sentience. No excuse can be attributed to it, and it's explicitly not Blue-and-Orange Morality....now, the novel is comedic, and not exactly mature at points (IE: the villain is blown up with a partially dog crap bomb), but Korrok is played seriously enough. Even his true personality, a racist, homophobic 13 year old, is played more for horror than anything. No redeeming Qualities whatsoever.
Conclusion?
I think we have a winner.
Edited by Lightysnake on Mar 21st 2019 at 10:18:43 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Oberoi.
Edit: Yes to Korrok as well.
Edited by Bullman on Mar 21st 2019 at 9:22:38 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Goku Black
Moriarty and krokorok
Edited by miraculous on Mar 21st 2019 at 7:23:13 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Oh yeah to Moriarty as well.
Edited by Bullman on Mar 21st 2019 at 9:34:46 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Moriarty.
Ditto the Psychopathic Manchild AI (his film incarnation's another one for Kevin Michael Richardson).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
So, it's the 21st. Time to discuss this show.
The Order is your standard everyday Urban Fantasy show about your everyday protagonist, Jack Morton, joining your everyday college campus and discovering that said college campus is riddled with all sorts of magic and some fantasy creatures. Y'know, 'notha normal day in college. As it turns out, Jack wants to get involved in a secret cult known as the Order so he can take down its leader and avenge his mother's death. Then he gets turned into a werewolf. And things...get complicated and complex from that point forward. Much to my surprise.
So let's talk about the leader of this cult.
Who Is He?
Grand Magus Edward Coventry is the Big Bad of Season 1, and the leader of the Hermetic Order of the Blue Rose. He's also Jack's father.
What Has He Done?
Coventry first shows up in the second episode, after three of his neophytes (magic recruits) were mysteriously killed by a golem. After Coventry finds out that Margaret Crain, a member of the Gnostic Council, killed the neophytes to get her son in the Order, he has her tortured to death—fittingly by the same golem she used to kill the neophytes. He later tests some of his students to try and dissolve an obsidian block in order to obtain pages from an ancient spell book known as the Vade Maecum Infernal, which results in some of them getting injured. But Alyssa, one of the Order's more experienced members, is able to melt the block and retrieve the pages. Knowing Alyssa can be useful, he continues using her for his schemes, allowing her to infiltrate a knight's mind so he can gather two more pages.
In Episode 5, Coventry tells his Council that he plans on using the Vade Maecum in order to "change the world." Vera immediately protests this, knowing full well how dangerous it is, but he ignores her. Renée Marand, a necromancer and former member of the Order who has cancer, comes to Coventry and offers him a deal: if he saves her life, she'll give him the Necrophone, a device that allows someone to speak to the dead and figure out where the last pages of the Vade Maecum are. He agrees. Members of the Coventry kidnap five innocent people and sacrifice them, removing the disease from Renée but making the innocents' terminal illness worse. The sacrifice succeeds at first, but then backfires when Jack's werewolf allies, Hamish, Lilith, and Randall, Mercy Kill the innocents, causing the spell to reverse and kill Renée.
After Vera questions Coventry's intents again when one of her members is killed, and secretly a werewolf, Vera goes to Coventry's house, and both of them share drinks together consisting of a truth powder. Both of them share lots of dirty secrets, and eventually she reveals that she found more pages of the Vade Maecum. It's also revealed that he was wearing a necklace that nullified the truth serum; he only told her what he wanted her to hear. After Coventry's son, Maddox, accidentally releases Jurgen Sawyer, the sorcerer who created the Vade Maecum, he takes Maddox hostage. Coventry agrees to transfer Jurgen's body to a younger vessel—which he does. Jurgen releases his claim on the book, but not the binding spell he has with Coventry. So Coventry takes a knife and stabs himself in the chest—and due to magic, he ends up killing Jurgen. Coventry, however, survives.
While this is all happening, it's revealed that Coventry ordered a Council member named Professor Hemmings to kidnap innocents so he could use them as testing subjects to create monsters to fight off the werewolves. Jack and his allies burn the lab down and kill Hemmings though, ending those plans. Coventry gets closer to finishing the Vade Maecum and gets the Council to approve of finding the last pages. After Vera gets furious over finding out about Hemmings’ schemes, Coventry, suspecting she'll betray him, orders Alyssa to kill her. She doesn't though. He later manages to capture Lilith through means too complicated for me to get into, and discovers that the last pages are attached to werewolf hide (again...it makes sense in context. ...Sort of). As a result, the whole Vade Maecum is finished. Alyssa frees Lilith temporarily and the two try to get the drop on Coventry, but fail. During Alyssa’s escape, Jack's grandfather, Pete, shows up and tries to kill Coventry. He fails, and Coventry uses his new powers to make Pete explode.
All Coventry needs to do now is sacrifice his firstborn son, Maddox. Jack's friends, however, kidnap him and hold him hostage. Jack bargains with Coventry, telling him they'll give up Maddox so long as he doesn't murder his friends. He agrees, but kidnaps Alyssa as a bargaining chip. Jack shows up as planned, but doesn't bring Maddox, since Jack is technically his firstborn—which is what Coventry needs to fully finish his deal with the book. So Jack agrees to be sacrificed by Coventry, and is promptly stabbed multiple times by him.
Except it's not Jack. It's the clay golem from the first two episodes, who was also Jack's roommate at the time.
Since Coventry bungled the spell, the Vade Maecum seals Coventry into the book, with him murmuring "I'll see you in Hell" as his spirit is locked away. Jack burns the book afterwards, ensuring Coventry can't escape ever again.
Mitigating Factors?
All right, this is a little complicated here...
First off, his son Maddox, who's about ten years old? Scratch him. He doesn't care about him. At all. Yes, he treats his son very well and acts like any normal, loving father would. But deep down, Coventry sees Maddox as nothing more than a puzzle piece he needs in order to use the Vade Maecum and become a god-like figure.
Jack Morton, his actual firstborn son? Scratch him. When Jack reveals to Coventry that he's his firstborn, and not Maddox, his first instinct is to say "Eh. Fuck it. Guess I'll sacrifice you instead then."
Renée? He acts like he cares for her, but he doesn't. And when she dies later on, he barely raises an eyebrow.
Chloe Morton, one of Coventry's lovers and Jack's mother? Coventry didn't care about her. When Jack and Pete use the Necrophone to talk to her, she confesses that she'll never be at peace until she's reunited with him. Chloe loved Coventry and obsessed over her, but he never once mentions her. And given how he had a habit of using women in the past—and how he murdered Chloe, I doubt he cared for her.
Sophia, his wife who died before the show began? There's a point where Renée brings her up in a conversation, and he says "leave Sophia out of this." But that's it. And when Vera and Coventry are sharing their dirty secrets, he openly tells her he enjoyed using women and betraying his friends. But he confesses that he fell in love with Sophia, and he "changed" as a result. ...Here's the problem. When Pete uses the Necrophone again and talks to Sophia in the afterlife? It's revealed that Coventry killed her. She was just "a price he had to pay."
Coventry claims he wants to make the world a better place, but this man murdered his own wife and was willing to kill his own son. Hell, Coventry was willing to stab himself just to kill Jurgen Sawyer. Sophia even tells Pete that Coventry is allegedly a good man, but he cares more about power than about being good.
Coventry outwardly acts like a very, very nice man—to the point where I didn't even consider doing an EP on him. He treats his son well, he threw a party for his new recruits, promoted Vera to be part of his Council, treats Alyssa as one of his most valued members, has Kyle taken to the hospital after he breaks his arm during a magical test, and he speaks in a very soft, affable tone. In other words? He acts like a normal person.
And that's the point. He behaves this way to disguise his true intentions. After the first half of the series ends, we see Coventry's true colors. Despite caring about Alyssa, he's willing to “pluck out her eyeballs” in the finale just so she’ll witness Jack’s death. Despite promoting Vera, he orders Alyssa to kill her when he suspects she plans on betraying him. Deep down, he's just a power-hungry sociopath who only cares about himself.
Heinous Standard Issues?
High. Margaret got three innocent college students killed, the Order doesn't care who they have to kill in order to fuel their needs, two Mauve Shirts, Gabrielle and Brandon, inadvertently put innocents in harm’s way doing petty magic spells—and get a college professor killed, "Killith" is a shameless Blood Knight who tries to resort to killing others, Renée's sister hijacked a few innocents' bodies and got them killed, etc.
That being said, all these people listed above have some kind of redeeming qualities, or they're an Anti-Hero, or they have loved ones, etc. Coventry was willing to allow five innocents to be tortured to death, had Professor Hemmings kidnap and torture half a dozen innocents—some of whom were killed by Randall as a test run, tried to have Vera killed, tried to have Alyssa tortured in front of Jack, killed his own wife, killed Jack’s mother and grandfather, and had no problem murdering his own child all to gain god-like powers.
Final Verdict?
I...do not know. One could argue that he's a Well-Intentioned Extremist. I personally feel like he's a Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist. I'm genuinely surprised that a show of this...err, "caliber" has a villain this complex in it, and I don't know if it's because they actually were aiming to make a three-dimensional villain, or because of shitty writing.
Edited by Tyk5919 on Mar 21st 2019 at 11:03:53 AM
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
The MILF Virus
Moriarty, Edward and krokorok
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll give a yes to Coventry. I'll assume how a golem was able to fool Coventry into thinking he was Jack either makes sense, or is a total Ass Pull.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Oh, it makes sense. The golem has the ability to change his appearance.
Goku Black
Coventry
Man though he sounds like an incedible and intersting villain.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Coventry.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Zurich and Nalin Oberoi. I had not idea there was an Indian Spider-Man, but I shouldn't be surprised. It was pretty funny reading the names, though, since it gave me this weird feeling of fanfiction AU stuff. But apparently it's good, so that just makes me mean.
...god there must be a billion CM's from Bollywood. We mostly focus on North American, British and Japanese media here, so we're definitely missing stuff from around the globe. Maybe there's an Indian version of TV Tropes with a CM page 100 times longer than ours and is just 99% Bollywood baddies and they'd all be approved by our standard.
I am REALLY looking forward to the Japanese Supaidaman EP as well.
Goku Black
Oh I don't doubt that. We actually haven't covered it as Much as we have others.
I actually recommended a few of the More infamous villains from Bollywood films I know off to scragss and Lighty who will cover them in time.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
those I missed.
Hm. So here’s one I just thought of.
What is the work?
Known in North America as Indigo Prophecy and in Europe as Fahrenheit, this Quantic Dream game was directed by David Cage and is an interactive drama. It’s… a bit flawed. But we ain’t talking about that. The game starts off as a murder mystery before escalating – or devolving if you prefer – into a race to find the Indigo Child and save the world from an eternal winter and obtain unlimited power. One villain, The Oracle, was rejected because he was a bit too much of a pawn – seriously, the Orange Clan was just unnecessary. But this other villain might make the cut…
Who is it? What has it done?
The AI is a strange creature and a member of the “Purple Clan”, all of whom are AI’s living on the Internet. Some noble hobos – long story – speculate the Purple Clan gained sentience and sapience through the internet in the 80’s.
The AI and the Purple Clan watch Lucas Kane, one of the main characters, throughout the game, The AI eventually killing his psychic ally Agatha and disguising itself as her claiming she is speaking to Lucas beyond the grave. Manipulating Lucas and protecting him from the Oracle at many points, Lucas is, however, killed. But The AI resurrects Lucas as a sort of autonomous corpse to continue his mission. If Lucas saves the Indigo Child The AI, as Agatha, attempts to convince him to give her over. If Lucas refuses, the AI states that they put a mind control thing inside Lucas and that they ‘’technically’’ can’t kill him, but they can destroy him. Oh, and if you agree to hand over the child? Yeah, tries to do the same thing. Also does the same thing if you lost the child to the Oracle.
No matter what, when you get to the final battle the AI shows up one last time when you can finally kill it. But if you fail? It gains the power from the Child and instead of stopping the Winter, it gets worse. Humanity is forced underground as the Purple Clan hunt what is left of people.
Heinous enough?
While the Oracle has a lot more personal killing, the AI’s goal is far worse than the Orange Clan’s. The OC seem to be content to rule humanity quietly from the shadows while the Purple Clan want to exterminate humanity and become the dominant species. It also kills an old lady to manipulate her friend and tries to turn Lucas into a puppet, with him being to able to force of will out of it.
Any mitigations?
The AI has a nasty personality, mocking and superior, so no GDV here. There is no indication of compromised moral agency and never refers to its other Purple Clan members with any sort of sentimentality. It’s sort of like when I proposed the Loki Master from Ratchet and Clank All for One.
The one issue is whether its culpability is mitigated by being a member of a group. It’s the only AI we see and may be the leader, but I dunno. For me, it’s distinct from the Oracle who is clearly ordered to do his stuff. The AI is shown as only an individual even though we ‘’know’’ there are others and ‘’know’’ they also were involved – the AI states the Purple Clan as a whole brought Lucas back.
So, the question lies in whether the absolutely offscreen Purple Clan make The AI’s actions less vile.
Conclusion?
Leaning yes, but I can see people taking issue.
A shorter EP, but this one doesn't appear much and I feel I covered all the important bits.
Voon.
Zurich.
Nalin Oberoi.
Moriarty.
Krokorok and sometimes for kicks, it has them wrapped in bacons first before it devours them. Holy shit, that's a lot of pigs.
Edward Coventry.
Moriarty, Korrok, and Coventry.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Sure to all of the above candidates
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Right, lemme play catchup here.
for Voon, Charles Zurich, Nalin Oberoi, Andre "Moriarty" Belpois, Korrok.
Slight for the AI I guess.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Nalin Oberoi
Watch me destroying my country