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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#152276: Feb 27th 2019 at 3:16:20 PM

No. Not really. I mean, I could see why someone would "pity" characters such as Lotso or Koba, but otherwise, I feel nothing for them.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#152277: Feb 27th 2019 at 3:16:29 PM

[up][up]Lord Drakkon? Dude is just nuts and pure evil, but is clear that he could have being a hero, he even sort of want to be one...but he just to cruel and arrogant to try.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 27th 2019 at 6:16:46 AM

Watch me destroying my country
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#152278: Feb 27th 2019 at 3:16:45 PM

I'd be lying if I said I never pitied Griffith. What he went through was horrific, but it doesn't even remotely justify what he would go on to do.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Feb 27th 2019 at 3:18:47 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#152279: Feb 27th 2019 at 3:18:18 PM

Let's not bring up Griffith.

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#152280: Feb 27th 2019 at 3:19:22 PM

[up] Why not?

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Feb 27th 2019 at 3:19:37 AM

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#152281: Feb 27th 2019 at 3:19:23 PM

We have so many CM's with FE's we consider to not be mitigating without being called out that it would be madness to try and list them all.

I guess Koba's got a pretty messed up backstory and I can follow some of his logic, but when he murders Ash, that's a very firm line he crossed.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#152282: Feb 27th 2019 at 3:25:36 PM

I don't sympathize with him, but Hamdo's death scene was just so pathetic, with him screaming and whining like a little child, I couldn't help but feel a bit of bitter pity.

Why so serious?
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#152283: Feb 27th 2019 at 3:26:23 PM

I guess I would feel sympathy for Koba and Drakkon if they didn't go to for with thier actions.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 27th 2019 at 5:27:23 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#152284: Feb 27th 2019 at 3:29:13 PM

I've always been sympathetic of Light Yagami... the dude goes WAY too far, but he really thought what he was doing was right (and in the long run, it kind of was), and his death in both the manga and anime show him flashing back to what he was like when he first got the Death Note, which I always interpreted as him finally, in his last moments, realizing what he had become. Still, went WAY too far with his delusional quest and killed THOUSANDS, so that kind of outweighs it.

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#152285: Feb 27th 2019 at 3:39:05 PM

Again going back to Planescape, but Rowan Darkwood lived a long life of goodness as ranger who hunted evil giants, had a family he loved, gave himself over to devils to be tortured in his son's place, was tortured for decades, and came back to find everyone had moved on and had thus effectively lost everything he ever cared for. It's easy to understand how he fell into becoming a power hungry mad man, if not justify all the evils he would ultimately commit.

Edited by LoreDeluxe on Feb 27th 2019 at 3:39:34 AM

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#152286: Feb 27th 2019 at 3:39:21 PM

There are quite a few CM's I could pity for their excuse had it not been for how evil they became because of it. Closest I can get are those whose excuses are expanded upon by Word of God statments, and that's only because I take their contexts into account.

Take Monique Deveraux into for example; as far as the show is concenred she just became a deranged fanatic who Used to Be a Sweet Kid. Word of God expands on her excuse by stating she became this way by being all but brainwashed into Stockholm Syndrome by other fanatics in the afterlife during her first death.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#152287: Feb 27th 2019 at 3:44:45 PM

Also [tup] Armad, Kim and William.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#152288: Feb 27th 2019 at 3:46:47 PM

Btw, Lore, still planning on Guild Wars?

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#152289: Feb 27th 2019 at 3:50:26 PM

Yeah, I decided though to replay through the original Guild Wars. That's taking up a lot of time.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#152290: Feb 27th 2019 at 4:15:13 PM

Its probably irrelevant, but whist I agreed he qualified, I did feel pity for that evil lord that got devoured by a plague mice that was put up a month or so back.

Not cause he deserved any, but simply cause his fate was dragged out so long (I mean it sounded like half the story was just him running in utter terror) that it quickly went past any point I could draw any catharsis, even if he completely deserved it.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#152291: Feb 27th 2019 at 4:19:10 PM

I did felt pity on two C Ms that I put (Bizon and Teeki). But that doesnt excuse their actions at the end of the day.

Also, yes to all of the candidates I missed.

speaking of feel pity... i still wonder if heel realization is an insta disqualifier for a cm?

And oh right... While this girl is a fragment of the approved CM, i still feel pity for Malty's final fate and thats not how you supposed to do with your Hate Sink despite her catharsis Karmic Death. While she had a fucked up fate, she ends up wins at the end because the protagonist did exactly on what she accuses him of albeit by proxy

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Feb 27th 2019 at 7:27:44 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#152292: Feb 27th 2019 at 4:34:39 PM

[tup]Armand, Kim, William.

As for me? Adam Taurus, honestly. Yeah, he's a soulless, abusive, racist bastard first and foremost, but between his implied backstory, Fallen Hero qualities, (Even if they insist he was never good) and what always came off to me as some serious mental issues, I find it easy to pity him.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#152293: Feb 27th 2019 at 4:45:52 PM

Yeah...though I think bad writing's partially to blame there.

Edited by AustinDR on Feb 27th 2019 at 4:46:23 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#152294: Feb 27th 2019 at 4:50:51 PM

I'll say Kid Doflamingo. Yes, he brought it on himself, but those noble-haters were faaaaaaaaaaaaaar out of line even so.

There are also a few characters that were given such utterly torturous deaths that I can't help but feel a bit bad for them. Like, I recall one guy who was buried alive in salt, meaning his death was a combination of suffocation and having his innards roasted from the inside out.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Feb 27th 2019 at 6:52:44 AM

Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#152295: Feb 27th 2019 at 4:53:01 PM

[up]I can somewhat pity Kefka, if only for the whole 'can only find joy in destruction and nothing else' factor.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#152296: Feb 27th 2019 at 4:55:14 PM

Also, as an opponent of torture, Alan Wilson. His precise fate is never explicitly stated, but we're told it was both extremely painful and nonfatal, which might just make it worse. Word of God simply said he was "broken."

Edited by HamburgerTime on Feb 27th 2019 at 6:57:30 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#152297: Feb 27th 2019 at 4:56:56 PM

If for one I felt could've been pitied...Amy Hughes. Her coming from an abusive household could've been tragic...had she not have then murdered her family and decide to be possessed by a demon.

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#152298: Feb 27th 2019 at 5:08:05 PM

Never really been the type to pity a CM myself. I mean, I can find some aspects of their past or death sad, but at the end of the day I remember all the horrible things they've done and think "Yyyyyyyeah, he/she kinda had it coming" (Koba being my favorite example of this).

Edited by FriedWarthog on Feb 27th 2019 at 5:43:32 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#152299: Feb 27th 2019 at 5:12:28 PM

@HamburgerTime: Shit, that was Razim, wasn't it? I remember getting him up years ago.

As for CMs I pitied? Honestly? I can't name any. Thing with me is I usually can't invest pity in characters who are murdering and torturing everything in sight. Mothergod probably came closest; her final fate was really skeevy in what was otherwise a fantastic storyline.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#152300: Feb 27th 2019 at 5:28:51 PM

@Scrags: Agreed. Maybe Light Yagami, but he only counts in the manga so I can't even say him. And even then, with the anime, part of me was going "You know, you did get Takada to kill Mello—who I actually liked. And then you made her burn herself alive. And you made Naomi kill herself after killing her husband soooooooo fuck you."

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.

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