During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I'll give a tentative
to Hyung-Soo
Definite
to Armand
Also
to the Templar leader, given that Roth really set the heinous standard high in that game and that's not even getting to what Jack the Ripper does in the DLC (God I wish he didn't have that one militating factor so that he could qualify.)
Edited by G-Editor on Feb 27th 2019 at 9:41:38 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffSo...I couldn't find many candidates. I legit had bad luck for this thread. Many of the seeming keepers had redeeming traits.
...However. I still found one.
Kaiserreich time. What if Germany had won WW 1?
Well...the world is...different.
The world is filled with many, many politicians, of many moralities...thought the Syndicalists will always end up as nice pure leftists unless they become Totalists, let's be honest, the game is really biased towards them. Sure, there bad syndies in minor third world countries, but in cases such as the (unsurprisingly popular and well known scenerio) Second American Civil War, they are saints in most cases.
And...it isn't hard to see why when their Right Wing enemy is lead for someone as this guy.
Who is William Dudley Pelley
Ok, let's put the situation easy. The Great Depression is even worse and both Right and Left are angry with the status quo. The Left becomes syndicalist (As socialism died with Lenin in the Russian civil war) and eventually...someone will do a coup (in most cases, the war can be avoided, but is really hard).
America is divided on three factions, the original democracy (who can be turned into a millitar dictatorship if Mac Arthur goes full dick), The Combined Syndicates of America and the The American Union State, of which the America First Party forms a big part.
And well, Willain Dudley Pellew is one of its leaders and he's...awful, leading the National Populist (basically "fascists" by other name—KR ideologies aren't like ours. For example, Integralists are strongly anti-racist even if they are Nat Pops) faction of the America First Union Party. He is known for his support of racialism and Christian fundamentalism and while he works with the more tolerant Huey Long, they both hate each other and only work together due to a mutual hate towards Leftism.
Now, if his faction win the war...that is where the shit begins.
If Pellew wins, he makes the KKK an active part of the new government, turns Christianity into the state religion and purges any non-believers, creates forced labor camps for anyone who opposes the regime (branded as syndicalists), including any non-whites, creating something that can just be described as the American Apartheid. He is also a rabbid anti-vaxxed, whose fanatism ends up causing the biggest polio outbreak in America.
His victory is THE Downer Ending to a USA campaign. If the AUS wins, Pellew, George Van Horn Moseley (who can be described as Light Pelley with a focus in capitalism) and Long will purge each other. With a Long victory neuterizing Pelley for good.
Basically, dude is the Hate Sink of the game.
Heinous standard?
For a USA centric campaign? Sets it, biggest dick, even Moseley, ultimate corporate racist, is just a light version of him.
Worldwide...is complicated, there MANY dictators...but Pelley is one of the worst by far due to his sheeer racism. Is necessary say that even he had to work in a democracy, so the most that he can do is to turn democracy into a white-only bussiness.
Honestly, only people as Sakinov and Stemberg from Russia manage to be as bad as him. There other minor dictators comparable on evilness. But Pelley is still a standout.
Redeeming traits
Nah, just religious fanatism and racism. He might restore democracy sometimes...and he will made it a "White only" stuff, there is no love for democracy here, just racism. Compare it to Mac Arthur, who might restore democracy out of his goodwill if he doesn't become a egomaniacal dictator.
Verdict?
Easy
of Kaiserreich....thought sadly, I can't get more info of the other dictators.
Now. KR had no proper history, but the events that can be spawned in the multiple playthroughts give clear ideas of the politicians personalities and Pelley...there nothing good from him.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 27th 2019 at 3:12:12 PM
Watch me destroying my country
to Pelley. As for Kim... that sounds like Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse to me.
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Fair enough, although it still doesn't sound like he has a real excuse for his actions.
Edited by CloisterTheStupid on Feb 27th 2019 at 10:44:34 AM
Ah screw it.
Kim.
If it's never played for sympathy. I really dont see the link with what happened, especially since he blows it out of proportion.
Also guys. Weird question. The discussion page says that dead or alive 6's discussion date is the 29th Feburary. Unless I'm really mistaken. There is no such thing as a 29th Feburrday for this year.
Edited by miraculous on Feb 27th 2019 at 1:29:08 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Switching to yes on Kim. Thinking on it, the excuse doesn't really hold up.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadJust an FYI to Cloister and everyone else: For Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse to apply, the FE has to be explicitly called out or otherwise refuted. I myself got this wrong at first.
Mir: Huh, you are correct
Also, the game was delayed, so it should be March 15.
Indeed. It's more that the FE must be called out in universe by a specific character.
Someone saying "That doesn't excuse what you did" for instance, rather than it simply not adding up. And even if it's not an excuse it can still explain why someone does what they do.
Hence, why we try and put emphasis on how the FE influences them in the present.
Maybe FE should be renamed Freudian Explanation? Nah, way too confusing with everything else we got.
But a character can be called out on a weak FE and it can still be mitigating if it genuinely explains their actions.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Feb 27th 2019 at 10:53:07 AM
It might be pointless but I should note that not falling Under Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse dosent mean that the Freudian Excuse IS mitigating(Adam Tauras or TV! Zoom come to mind). The trope simply has a Specific Criteria
I do have a question, does anyone else have a CM they "Sympathize" with? Or pity. As in the Freudian Excuse is enough to make you, Subjectively pity them to an extent But they go to far for it to justify anything thus they still count, my favorites are either Live Action! Hunter Zoloman or Jerome Valeksa.
Things are really about to get Fun around here

I mean, I would downvote given his Freudian Excuse if he didn't go so, so far.
Things are really about to get Fun around here