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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#152226: Feb 27th 2019 at 7:05:23 AM

Sure to Armand

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#152227: Feb 27th 2019 at 7:18:53 AM

[tup] All candidates

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#152228: Feb 27th 2019 at 7:27:59 AM

No to the Templar Leader, yes to Armand.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
#152230: Feb 27th 2019 at 8:09:12 AM

[tup] Armand.

I plan to propose a villain from a movie. He is 100% worse than any other character in that movie.

Problem is he has really small screentime.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#152233: Feb 27th 2019 at 8:13:59 AM

We can evaluate that when we see it;. The only thing there, Hegel...try to expand these effortposts. There's a recurring issue where I find it hard to vote on them unless I know the work as I did with Sorel.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#152234: Feb 27th 2019 at 8:36:52 AM

[tup] Armand

Also there was an announcement on an upcoming remake of Candyman. Decided to nab that one.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#152235: Feb 27th 2019 at 8:43:44 AM

"who uses the pike to impale it, transferring the damage to Armand"...Was that ever explained, or am I overthinking it?

Yes to Armand.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#152236: Feb 27th 2019 at 8:44:47 AM

Oh yes. They’re linked so they feel one another's pain. Problem is they heal

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#152237: Feb 27th 2019 at 8:53:36 AM

Gotcha.

BTW, speaking of Dr. Giggles, does he count there? Or is he too insane (his father obviously loved his wife)?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#152238: Feb 27th 2019 at 8:56:23 AM

I haven’t seen it in ages. It might be too comedic honestly.

But god will I miss Larry Drake. Durant was an amazing villain

TheUnsquished Filthy Casual from A youngun between two oldies Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Filthy Casual
#152239: Feb 27th 2019 at 9:01:51 AM

[tdown] That Templar fella, [tup] Armand.

(Annoyed grunt)
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#152241: Feb 27th 2019 at 9:06:19 AM

[tup] Armand [tdown] Templar

Hegel, please try to expand your effort-posts. The Principal from Kabuto appeared in only three scenes (the first two had like, ten seconds) and i still managed to write twenty-something lines of information for his character.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Feb 27th 2019 at 2:13:15 PM

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#152242: Feb 27th 2019 at 9:36:33 AM

  • Persona: Be Your True Mind by Shinshu Ueda: In this adapatation of the first game, Nyarlathotep isn't the shadow of all humans, but rather a part of Takahisa Kandori's mind born out of his own mysantropy, influencing him into desiring the extinction of humanity without his knowledge, leading to the tragedies throughout the series. When Kandori starts to doubt his own actions and has a breakdown after being called on his flaws by Kei Nanjo, Nyarlathotep uses his rage to take control of him, forcing Kandori to stab his beloved daughter before fully posessing him and turning him into a hideous creature that tries to kill the protagonists, enjoying their fear and trying to break Nanjo's will. Despite being a shadow and his short screentime, Nyarlathotep's sadism, lack of loved ones and omnicidal ambitions make him stand out from the other shadows seen throughout the series.

To the draft it goes.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 27th 2019 at 12:38:49 PM

Watch me destroying my country
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#152243: Feb 27th 2019 at 10:28:54 AM

Also, more Criminal Minds stuff!

Don't worry [lol] Mir and I were talking, and thought Lucy's entry was a bit Janky. Here's a slight rewrite (I also cut the bit about her trying to kill Rossi; that's not really notable).

  • Lucy, from the season finale "Supply and Demand", is the head of a Human Trafficking ring. She has her gang kidnap young men and women and pimp them out to various sexual deviants, staging live shows in which the victims are tortured, and even killed, by her men and/or clients. The victims are beaten, drugged, and otherwise mistreated to ensure compliance, and are kept caged in between visits from Lucy's clients. A psychological sadist, Lucy frequently has herself locked in the cages by her men, winning her victims' trust while pretending to be one of them; she later takes unholy glee in revealing that she is, in fact, the leader. Lucy scouts the victims out in the first place, visiting college campuses, while posing as a student, and then staging her own abduction alongside any students she has befriended. When Lucy discovers that Renee Matlin, one of her victims, is an undercover cop, she proceeds to play a game of Russian Roulette with her, then has the other woman savagely beaten, gloating the whole time. Interrupted by the police, Lucy manipulates Max, one of her associates, into being killed by them, planning to frame him for her crimes.

Edited by ACW on Feb 27th 2019 at 1:32:18 PM

AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#152244: Feb 27th 2019 at 10:29:35 AM

[tup] to Armand, [tdown] to the Templar leader.

Final Korean Criminal Minds baddie, he's the one I'm least sure on but I believe he's at least worth the discussion.

Who is Kim Hyung-soo? What has he done?

Kim Hyung-soo is an abusive, sadistic Serial Rapist.

Once having a girlfriend who he beat and raped regularly, the woman got an abortion when she realized she was pregnant, and planned to leave Hyung-soo for another man. Hyung-soo responded by assaulting her and attempting to bash her skull in with a brick, however was stopped by civilians and arrested for a time, allowing his now-ex-girlfriend to leave him and flee with her new husband.

A week later, Hyung-soo attacked, beat, and raped a young woman at a Christian college, before continuing the cycle, always delivering a No-Holds-Barred Beatdown to the women that leaves bones broken before raping them.

When his fourth victim kills herself, Hyung-soo took a hiatus, however gets back into the game more sadistic than ever, next beginning to rape women he tracks after they visit fertility clinics.

Raping two more women, brutally assaulting one's boyfriend in the process, Hyung-soo then attacks a young mother, locking her son in the closet where he can hear the rape as he assaults her mother.

As the NCI team pursues him, Hyung-soo manages to capture one of he female members, Sun-woo, and tries to rape her. She gets the upper hand however and trains her gun on him, calling him a perverted sadist and demanding to know why he chose his specific targets.

Hyung-soo reveals that he raped first Christian girls because he knew they'd be less likely to get abortions, and then women who were visiting fertility clinics because they wanted children, because he wants to create another person like himself in personality and attitude towards women, calling them weak and filthy. This also is used to explain why he forced the young boy to listen in to his mother's rape, trying to corrupt him.

Proclaiming that all the women secretly "want" him and wanted him to rape and abuse him, because all women are deep down whores, Hyung-soo tries to attack Sun-woo again only for her to gun him down.

When the NCI finds Hyung-soo's lair, they see he has the cut-out faces of all his victims so far, as well as other women, with the implication being that he either had more rapes under his belt, or had plans for more.

Does Hyung-soo have a Freudian Excuse or other mitigating features?

When Hyung-soo was a child, his mother once forced him to hide in a closet while she had her boyfriend over and they had sex. A crying Hyung-soo saw obscured sights of the two having sex, and this instilled in his mind that his mother was a whore. When his abused girlfriend left him and aborted their child, he came to the conclusion all women are filthy whores who need to be beaten and raped to "keep them in line" and because they secretly "want it."

This is my only real potential issue with him. These "reasons" aren't really portrayed all that sympathetically, but depending on the person the childhood thing in particular is kind of messed up, so it's really going to depend on the person on if they think that childhood event is enough to disqualify him.

Except for this there's nothing else. His reasons for wanting a child are portrayed as nothing but ego and wanting to make more people "like himself", and though he took a hiatus after one of his victims killed herself, which the NCI team wonders if it was out of guilt, Hyung-soo himself never shows guilt or remorse for his crimes and comes back even more sadistic, so "guilt" is nothing but speculation, and even if he did show guilt he's obviously far past it by the present.

Is Hyung-soo sufficiently heinous?

Absolutely. Hyung-soo is the only Monster of the Week who is a Serial Rapist, and with 7 victims, potentially more, abusing, raping, and attempting to murder his girlfriend, and trying to rape Sun-woo on his rapsheet, he's easily bad enough for this series.

Final Verdict?

I might just lean [tup], but his childhood experience where he was forced to hide in a closet and saw glimpses of his mother having sex might disqualify him, which I won't be too surprised over, but again, I figure he's worth discussion, especially seeing as he's the only other candidate in the show.

Edited by AgeOfTropeEmpire on Feb 27th 2019 at 10:30:46 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#152245: Feb 27th 2019 at 10:32:09 AM

I'm firmly unsure. I wanna say yes, but that's a strong Freudian Excuse.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#152246: Feb 27th 2019 at 10:40:25 AM

Tentative [tup] There. And to those I missed. Sans the templar leader.

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 27th 2019 at 10:40:44 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#152247: Feb 27th 2019 at 10:45:10 AM

[tdown] Kim Hyung-soo. Same as ACW said, it sounds like too many mitigating factors.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 27th 2019 at 1:46:28 PM

Watch me destroying my country
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#152248: Feb 27th 2019 at 10:52:55 AM

Like, I'd need to see the ep myself to be comfortable voting either way.

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#152249: Feb 27th 2019 at 10:54:59 AM

I remember watching the episode of his American counterpart. The dude was such an asshole that one of the BAU investigators had to kill him off-duty to prevent him from inflicting more pain to innocent women.

Kim is a different case tho, i'll abstain for now.

[down] William Lee

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Feb 27th 2019 at 4:38:10 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#152250: Feb 27th 2019 at 10:58:03 AM

Who was his American counterpart?

Come to think of it, who are the other American counterparts? I know the Reaper and Chad Brown, but what about this guy and the other 2?


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