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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#151901: Feb 25th 2019 at 10:52:49 AM

[tup] the Heuters and Jack the Ripper! Is there a (fictional) version of Jack the Ripper who doesn't qualify?

Help me!
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#151903: Feb 25th 2019 at 10:53:56 AM

[up][up] The Assassin's Creed version doesn't count, and neither does Demolition Man version.

Edited by emperors on Feb 25th 2019 at 1:54:12 PM

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
TheUnsquished Filthy Casual from A youngun between two oldies Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Filthy Casual
#151904: Feb 25th 2019 at 10:55:10 AM

[tup] Heuters and Jack the Ripper.

(Annoyed grunt)
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#151905: Feb 25th 2019 at 10:56:48 AM

The Gotham by Gaslight one doesn't, at least in the comic (I'm guessing, otherwise I assume he'd've been brought up); film version is a different matter.

The one in From Hell apparently doesn't count either (nor does he in the film).

Edited by ACW on Feb 25th 2019 at 1:58:58 PM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#151907: Feb 25th 2019 at 11:01:42 AM

One thing we don't have to do is detail a list of fictionalized representations of a serial killer who don't count. the answer is lots, that's all.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#151910: Feb 25th 2019 at 11:10:50 AM
Thumped: This post was thumped by the Stick of Off-Topic Thumping. Stay on topic, please.
Help me!
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#151912: Feb 25th 2019 at 11:21:55 AM

I will admit, I'm curious about the Gotham one myself.

[down]Ah, gotcha.

Edited by ACW on Feb 25th 2019 at 2:39:07 PM

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#151913: Feb 25th 2019 at 11:36:52 AM

ACW: I did bring the comic version Gotham!Jack up. Apparently he was too crazy.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#151914: Feb 25th 2019 at 11:44:36 AM

The version of Jack the Ripper from Fallen London turned out the be a bunch of sentient knives that possess people and force them to go on killing sprees. I considered doing an effort post, but there were serious agency issues.

Edited by LoreDeluxe on Feb 25th 2019 at 11:44:54 AM

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#151915: Feb 25th 2019 at 11:45:30 AM

[up] Sounds like something straight out of SCP to be honest.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Feb 25th 2019 at 4:45:49 PM

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#151916: Feb 25th 2019 at 11:47:20 AM

[tup]Heuters and Jack.

Why so serious?
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#151917: Feb 25th 2019 at 11:50:22 AM

I will say that it's a pretty unique take on him for what it's worth.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#151918: Feb 25th 2019 at 11:52:55 AM

[up]Something that was pretty unique was, during the investigation, that player can allow themselves to be possessed to get more insight into the case. There are even content warnings about the graphic nature of the subsequent texts.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#151920: Feb 25th 2019 at 12:25:44 PM

Speaking of Comic Jack/Jacob Parker, I remembered having arguments when I EP him that wern't adressed. Maybe I'll revist but still a little busy at the moment.

But I forgot to say [tup] to the Jack we are talking about.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#151922: Feb 25th 2019 at 2:06:13 PM

Yes to Heuthers, Jack and The Police.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#151923: Feb 25th 2019 at 2:39:47 PM

[tup] Heuters

[tup]Jack the Ripper

Sorry for.not posting a lot. I just.came back from a long travel.

Watch me destroying my country
Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#151924: Feb 25th 2019 at 3:06:59 PM

[up]Okay, I'm going to explain why I view Somnambula's general actions as worthy of this trope to give my perspective:

The aging plan is not her ONLY crime.

The fate she puts the unicorns in is an And I Must Scream: trapped chained in one place, incapable of moving or even speaking, but we're given a shot they were completely aware of their surroundings the entire time. She intends this to last for the REST of their lives. I view that as extremely heinous and monstrous, especially given she does it solely for power and vanity.

Second, she flat out tortures her sapient bird on screen by shrinking her cage until she's in so much pain she relents and helps her, and threatens to do so every time she forces her to sing. Said bird is clearly horrified by everything she's being forced to do, begs Som to stop, and is absolutely terrified of her.

And at the climax, Som makes it clear with her Lotus-Eater Machine ruined, she has every intent of using her new power to hold them all to feed her youth and power.

To me, the big thing here is this:

Som makes it clear she has NO INTENTION of ever letting her victims go. EVER. She fully intends to keep them the rest of their lives, be it in her Lotus-Eater Machine or as captives. Even if her plan doesn't directly kills them, she intends them to never be anything more than a Living Battery for her youth and power ever again. She plays nice when she was weak out of pragmatism, but she's more than willing to keep them as prisoners who's only life is to be feeding her youth once she's strong enough.

And I personally do feel yes, having your youth stolen and aged into an old person as that horrible.

Since the question is 'is it heinous by a real life standard', I will ask 'would having your youth stolen and make you and old man be one of the worst possible fates that could come to you'? My answer is yes, as it effectively is stealing most of your life from you.

And Somnambula also has a massive intended victim count.

And as for it being 'reversable', I'm going to point out LITERALLY every evil thing the Dark Masters did was reversed in the end.

This isn't meant to start an argument, just explaining my POV on this and why I personally think she counts.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#151925: Feb 25th 2019 at 3:08:46 PM

Unless someone can say the explanation's overplaying what's on screen, I'm inclined to give a yes.


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