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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

nombretomado (Season 1) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#151403: Feb 22nd 2019 at 9:49:12 PM

[tup] to Maggie and Dollar.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#151404: Feb 22nd 2019 at 10:02:14 PM

Yeah to the last three and Man, I get if you wanna be doing these writeups yourself but they both need some serious trimming. When your character is a secondary medium recreating a character from the first of a series of games, I seriously doubt they need to be at/exceeding the entry length for a dude like Haazheel Thorn.

Oh hey, we get a thing to vote on, lit!

MetaBuu Since: Jun, 2013
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#151406: Feb 22nd 2019 at 11:23:53 PM

[tup]Xenmas, Maggie and top dollar

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#151407: Feb 22nd 2019 at 11:57:56 PM

[tup] to Earth, Carroon, Xemnas, Top Dollar and Maggie.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#151408: Feb 22nd 2019 at 11:58:16 PM

Yes to all the candidates I missed.

Also, I think this looks like a good image for Erzsebet Ondrushko from the Hellboy cartoon movie, IMO.

[1]

Edited by Overlord on Feb 23rd 2019 at 12:01:39 PM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#151409: Feb 23rd 2019 at 12:37:09 AM

[tup] Maggie, which feels weird as that's the name of my grandmother's service dog.

Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Feb 23rd 2019 at 12:37:49 PM

SeptimusHeap MOD from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#151410: Feb 23rd 2019 at 1:33:27 AM

I have a question about the crowner on locking the quotes page that is currently attached to this thread. There was a holler requesting its attachment to the thread and nombretomado enacted it. Now there is a request in Ask The Tropers here to have it closed. Is the closure request premature?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#151411: Feb 23rd 2019 at 1:39:21 AM

I'd give it another day or so. The crowner's existed for three days, but it's only been attached to the thread for a small portion of that time and I've observed some people haven't been aware of its existence yet.

I'd say close it about twenty-four hours from now, give or take. That should be more than enough time for anyone who hasn't pitched in an opinion to do so.

UltimateDemonBeast65 Since: Feb, 2018
#151413: Feb 23rd 2019 at 2:12:19 AM

You guys actually think Maggie from Incarnate is a yay?

Or are you talking about a different one?

UltimateDemonBeast65 Since: Feb, 2018
#151414: Feb 23rd 2019 at 2:19:16 AM

Nevermind, it's because that you formatted it correctly and provided more evidence that they agree. Well at least I got one right this time.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#151415: Feb 23rd 2019 at 2:21:46 AM

Yes to the image (I could've SWORN we had it up already).

Ansem and Xenmas: Aren't they both Xehanort and this the same person? I've never understood that...Wouldn't Ansem=Xenmas=Master Xehanort?

Think I'll give a yes to Top Dollar; was the nightclub populated when he tried to blow it up?

Sure to Maggie. Barely, but seems to do just enough.

UltimateDemonBeast65 Since: Feb, 2018
#151416: Feb 23rd 2019 at 2:59:50 AM

Ansem (Ansem, Seeker of Darkness and not Ansem the Wise) and Xenmas are Xehanort's Heartless and Nobody. They are aspects of him but are separate entities in their own right. Technically, they are the Heartless and Nobody of Terra-Xehanort, Terra possessed by Xehanort therefore making them part Terra as well.

Terra-Xehanort is the version of Xehanort who studied under Ansem the Wise then betrayed him and his Heartless took up his name and research while his Nobody lead Organization XII and had his fellow Nobodies cause some chaos and mischief.

Xenmas I'm guessing in the manga is more heinous than in the games, but he still is a bastard for using his fellow members to fuel his Somebody's goals and lying to them about how they can't grow their hearts back.

Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, is pretty nasty too as he is actually the reason why Xehanort became evil in the first place by travelling through time and corrupting a young Xehanort. I don't know if he has redeeming qualities or not.

Anyway, I hope that makes some sense for that query.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#151417: Feb 23rd 2019 at 3:38:41 AM

I have a question about Fist of the North Star page image, it depicts Jackal killing some mook and tells he did it because he supposedly said "You need a haircut", now i read the manga and it was not true. Jackal killed this mook, because he tried to prevent him from releasing Devil Rebirth from "Villiany Prison". And even then, isn't killing their mooks is ordinary thing for Fist of the North Star villains to do. Can i propose to change page image instead to this or this?

Also, if we okay with fanart, can we put this image of Frank Horrigan on Fallout page?

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 23rd 2019 at 2:41:19 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#151418: Feb 23rd 2019 at 3:49:52 AM

Ultimate: That actually does help. Thanks smile

BTW, Manga!Ansem was indeed approved already. I'll have a tree with him and Xemnas.

As for the images: If we give the source it's from, I can take Horrigan to image-pickin'.

Either of the Fist images works for me as well; seems like context is key there. That's a reason I've never been too fond of the image at Fullmetal Alchemist: Yes, he IS strangling his own son, but at WORST it's Disproportionate Retribution, as his son—albeit unwittingly—caused Bradley's death.

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#151419: Feb 23rd 2019 at 3:59:34 AM

[up]I have taken Frank Horrigan image from here. Wasn't able to find artist, who did it.

UltimateDemonBeast65 Since: Feb, 2018
#151420: Feb 23rd 2019 at 4:47:21 AM

What's The work?

I was born on a child farm from the nosleep subreddit

Who's the character your proposing?

Headmaster Ranon Xinon (Real name: Clark P. Ganes)

What does he do?

Headmaster Ranon Xinon is the owner of the titular 'child farm' in the story. Xinon has an entire farm of children who he enslaves and treats like animals, making them work in the fields and cleaning his house in unsanitary conditions. Whenever he feeds the children, Xinon pours a strange poison on the food of a random child's meal and slides each of their plates under a steel door so they wouldn't know whose food was poisoned and therefore making the children fear for their lives and resorting to eat insects and dead animals to survive.

The only outside world interaction that is had is vehicles and individuals talking and doing business with Xinon, including a helicopter that circles the farm. The limited knowledge and abuse the children suffer under Xinon has affected them so badly that their sense of reality is twisted and mad, believing Xinon to be a demon and the children his creations.

Every few weeks, Xinon takes the children out to the edge of the farm and plays a sadistic game with them. He gives them the chance to run and flee from the farm, but those who do will be attacked and killed by rabid dogs he has trained.

Xinon also will come in the barn the children sleep in and takes one back to his house where physically abuses them, leaving strange marks on their body. On the day the protagonist begins to carry out his plan to kill the headmaster, Xinon is visited by a helicopter again and goes insane, poisoning half of his children's meal and having sent to the slaughterhouse, only for the protagonist and others to try and escape, but with the protagonist only surviving.

Hiding in the the walls of the toilet, Xinon goes to relieve himself only for the protagonist to realise his plan and kills Xinon with a swarm of black widow spiders. In his final moments, Xinon simply taunts the protagonist with his final breath, saying that they were both ghosts and drops dead.

The helicopter came for the protagonist and the children and an agent of the group known as the Hermetical Office named Clinton Moxley appeared and adopted the protagonist and named him Howard. Moxley then explained Xinon's true identity.

His real name was Clark P. Ganes, an “anomalous individual” the group captured and studied. Ganes touched Frank Bernwiest, an elderly member of the group and caused him to reverse in age, reverting into a middle aged man. Each time Ganes touched Frank, the man who rapidly become younger until he was child again.

"He chooses victims who had good lives. His existence is the greatest evidence that Time is a physical dimension, something that exists, and has always existed. He lives YOUR years in just a few seconds. Frank was left with 9 bad years out of 79. You would think being young again is a great, remember that he was left with the mind of a 9 year old, without care of friends or family...you know that pain well, Howard. The office didn't have the resources to care for Frank...we believe Clark Ganes is responsible for over a hundred thousand homeless children across the world. Frank was just one of them, another human with a used-up timeline..."

- Clinton Moxley about Clark Ganes/Ranon Xinon's motives and abilty

Moxley then reveals that Howard was originally his mentor and a victim of Ganes when he tried to stop him and his farm alone. As Howard is tucked into bed, he hears the footsteps of the headmaster again, implying he survived considering Moxley said they never found his body.

What makes him uniquely bad in comparison to other villains?(higher body count. Particularly evil actions)

He is running unopposed. however his motives are clearly heinous and selfish. He steals people's life force as well as their good memories and experiences, reducing his victims into children who lack any joy, love or knowledge. He keeps a farm of children to drain away their life force slowly and kills them off whenever they no longer can provide him with any more 'good lives' to steal and take. He treated the children as nothing but livestock and slaves, and as his quotes show has no remorse or second thoughts in his actions. When he supposedly dies, he dies porud of being able to live such a long life through the lives he stole and ruined, cursing the protagonist that he lived his life when all he was left with was suffering. Xinon also appears to learn the skils and abilities of those he takes life force from, mentioning that he learn how to train his dogs from one of his victims, meaning all the horrible stuff he did and the way he ran the farm is most likely through taking the training and experience of several soldiers and war veterans and using that knowledge for his own selfish and depraved purposes.

Does he have a Freudian Excuse or any redeeming qualities? Or agency issues?

He in no way has any redeeming qualities. He is a monster bent on stealing the life force and good successful experiences of happy people who he leaves as a weak, vulnerable and scared child with no sense of joy, love or reality, and continues to feed off them until they no longer have anything worth stealing. His only real motives appear to be self-preservation and living and feeding off the good lives of his victims, while instilling himself with a sense of superiority and narcissism as he enslaves and abuses the children he holds captive. As mentioned above, he as done this countless of times before and from the looks of the ending, is now going to start again and no doubt take his revenge on Howard.

Final Verdict.

Both a unique villain with an interesting power and motive, as well as a heinous and detestable monster, Clark Ganes is exactly what the children of the farm sayid he was: A demon.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#151421: Feb 23rd 2019 at 5:32:25 AM

[tup] to Godzilla Earth.

[tup] Top Dollar.

[tup] Maggie.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#151422: Feb 23rd 2019 at 5:38:55 AM

[tup] Manga!Xemnas, Top Dollar, Maggie, and Ranon Xinon.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#151423: Feb 23rd 2019 at 5:45:34 AM

Oh good, more NoSleep stories.

I'm at work right now on my break, so I wad only able to skim parts of it. It's doesn't seem to be mindless over the top gore for the most part, even with the whole child abuse angle in it. Although, again, I skimmed it.

I'll give a firm vote when I have time to thoroughly read the story, but I'm leaning [tup].

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#151424: Feb 23rd 2019 at 5:48:21 AM

[tup] to Top Dollar, Maggie and (assuming its not schlock) Clark P. Ganes.

lrrose Since: Jul, 2009

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