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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#151201: Feb 22nd 2019 at 12:12:33 AM

[tup] Scarka, Bellum, Nyarly and Jael

@Papyru: If you PM me, I can recommend you some works to look into.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#151203: Feb 22nd 2019 at 12:52:05 AM

[tup] Scarka, Bellum, Nyarly and Jael

So I've been checking quotes, and holy crap in the video game section we have this monstrosity.

Detective Sogo Inaba: Nagito, tell me, how many people have you killed?

Nagito Akashi: Could it be?! Did our private dick crack this case wide open!? Oh, wowzers, somebody give this guy an award!!

Nina Arimura: W-what are you saying, Mr. Inaba!?

Detective Sogo Inaba: Based on those letters, I have deduced that our mastermind here has repeated this exact scenario countless times before to an art form.

Nina Arimura: Yeah, you’re talking about us being "test subjects"?

Detective Sogo Inaba: Precisely, anyone who came in this mansion were "test subjects" to be used as the groundwork for his next literary work.

Nina Arimura: Y-you mean those murder mystery books?!

Nagito Akashi: My hat’s off to you, man! Here, I encompassed everything essential in creating the perfect murder mystery! The killer’s psychology! The victim’s raw emotions! And above all else, keeping the illusion consistent!

Detective Sogo Inaba: Those murder mystery novels by an unknown author...You wrote all of them...

Nagito Akashi: Hey! Are you telling me that you’ve read them?! Because my murder mystery masterpieces are absolutely without peer! Nothing can even compare to them! Especially because all of them are based on real people and real events! Doctor Seiya Harima: They are all...non-fiction...

Nina Arimura:T-then...All those deaths in the books...They all really happened?!

Nagito Akashi: No shit, Sherlock.

Detective Sogo Inaba: You’re out of your mind.

Nagito Akashi: However, all those other books are going to pale comparsion to this one! I can’t wait to start writing it! Oh, Nagito, you’ve outdone yourself this time!...Heh heh...AHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Nina Arimura:Y-you’re insane! To kill for such empty reasons!?

Nagito Akashi: Empty reasons? Excuse you, they were all honorable, valuable sacrifices for my ultimate art. Besides I didn’t lay a single finger on them. They all died of their own volition.

Nina Arimura: How could you say such things?!

Detective Sogo Inaba: Don’t, Arimura. Nothing we says matters at this point.

—The Real Killer, Nagito Akashi explaining his true motives, The Mystery Files of Detective Inaba No.1

This definitely needs to get cut or tone down a looooooooottttttt.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#151204: Feb 22nd 2019 at 12:59:56 AM

Yes to Scarka; Manga!Bellum; Jael.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#151205: Feb 22nd 2019 at 1:03:19 AM

[up][up] Wipe that entire quote, please and thank you.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#151206: Feb 22nd 2019 at 1:40:40 AM

@ Elfen

I've checked your to-do list and I'm going to tell you now these's no candidates in these:

- House of Anubis

- Azure Striker Gunvolt

- Konosuba (Alderp)

- Monster Allergy (Magsiter is pretty bad, but really lacks enough actions to be considered except killing his own minions out of incompetence.)

Edited by TheImmortalAngelNewton on Feb 22nd 2019 at 1:40:57 AM

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
UltimateDemonBeast65 Since: Feb, 2018
#151207: Feb 22nd 2019 at 1:47:43 AM

I wanted to suggest Mundus from the original Devil May Cry game. He is in only one of the games in the franchise and only in a few scenes, but his impact on the series and his onscreen actions are downright disgusting and depraved. This is a mock-up of the entry. If I need to format it differently, please say so.

Mundus is the Big Bad of the first Devil May Cry and the Greater-Scope Villain for the overall series. Known as the Prince of Darkness and Emperor of the Underworld, Mundus overthrew the original ruler of the Demon world and ruled as a tyrannical king until his former ally and general Sparda sealed him away after he attempted to invade and conquer the human world. 20 years later, Mundus is resurrected on Mallet Island and creates the female demon Trish to lure Sparda's son Dante to the island by making her resemble his deceased mother Eva and has his minions try and kill Dante at every turn, inlcuding the Noble Demon Nelo Angelo, who is revealed to be Dante's twin brother Vergil who Mundus defeated and brainwashed into becoming his servant after he fell into the Underworld during their youth. When his Dragon Griffon is defeated in battle and asks for his master's help, Mundus coldly refuses and kills his loyal servant instead for his failure, an act that disgusts Dante. When Dante confronts Mundus, he holds Trish hostage and kills her after she takes a blow meant for him, in which Mundus taunts Dante about how his human side makes him weak. A cruel, ruthless and selfish demon, Mundus stands out as both the first and most malevolent of the series' villains.

Anyway, if you think I'm using the wrong format or need to fix something, just give me a hoot. If it's not approved, then that's okay, I'm willing to let it go.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#151208: Feb 22nd 2019 at 1:52:01 AM

We've already brought him before and the concessus is that Mundus is overshadowed by Arkham, Sanctus and Sid who have less ressources than him.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#151209: Feb 22nd 2019 at 1:53:55 AM

Hold on, if there's extra materials that add Mundus' crimes, then I wouldn't might hearing it. If it's only base on game than that's a definite nope, but if there's more material added than we might have to consider.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#151210: Feb 22nd 2019 at 2:07:57 AM

According to the fanwiki, Mundus also appears in the Devil May Cry 3 tie-in prequel manga. I admit I haven't read it.

UltimateDemonBeast65 Since: Feb, 2018
#151211: Feb 22nd 2019 at 2:17:12 AM

The official guide for the original game also possesses details about Mundus, like him amassing an army and killing the God of Evil, the Underworld’s original ruler.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#151212: Feb 22nd 2019 at 2:20:56 AM

@Ultimate Demon Beast

If there's new info. An Effort post would work.

An Effort post works like this.

What's The work?

Whos the charachter your proposing?

What does he do?(And please make sure to add the info of his other appearences here)

What makes him uniquely bad in comparison to other villains?(higher body count. Particularly evil actions)

Does he have a Freudian Excuse or any redeeming qualities? Or agency issues?

Final Verdict.

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 22nd 2019 at 2:23:50 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#151213: Feb 22nd 2019 at 2:45:43 AM

Having read the manga [tup] Bellum

And also yes to Jael

UltimateDemonBeast65 Since: Feb, 2018
#151214: Feb 22nd 2019 at 3:16:26 AM

What's The work?

Devil May Cry

Who's the character your proposing?

Mundus

What does he do?(And please make sure to add the info of his other appearances here)

Mundus is the main antagonist of the first Devil May Cry game, but also serves as a Greater-Scope Villain of the franchise due to the fact that without Mundus, Sparda would never have become such a legend in the first, therefore meaning Arkham or Sanctus wouldn't have seeked out his power. It's true that Sparda also defeated Argosax but that was more or less an isolated incident that is only really known in Vie de Marli from Devil May Cry 2 plus Argosax overthrew Berial, Mundus' son, after Sparda sealed him away therefore Argosax is after Mundus. To put it frankly, the story of Devil May Cry wouldn't exist without Mundus and Sanctus and Arkham wouldn't have seeked Sparda's power had Mundus not existed.

Mundus is known as the Prince of Darkness or Dark Emperor and thousands of years ago amassed an army of demons to overthrow the Underworld's ancient ruler, the God of Evil. Two thousands years ago, Mundus' former ally and the Dark Knight Sparda woke up to justice and betrayed his fellow demons, and sealed away the Dark Emperor, in which his son and heir Berial took his place, but was usurped by Argosax the Despair Entombed, who Sparda also defeated.

Berial, for context, is known is the Conquerer of the Fire Hell and a boss in Devil May Cry 4, however that may be a mistranslation as according to the official artbook, Berial is Mundus' son and the heir to the throne of the Underworld.

20 years ago, some of Mundus' minions found Sparda's wife Eva and her sons Dante and Vergil, and they killed Eva and separated the two twins. In their young adult years, most likely 10 years after their mother's death, Vergil fell into the Underworld after being defeated by Dante and foolishly tried to fight Mundus on his own, and lost in which Mundus tortured Vergil and brainwashed him into becoming the demonic knight, Nelo Angelo.

Mundus somehow is resurrected in the human world on Mallet Island where a rift between worlds exists. Mundus creates Trish, a demon who resembles Eva, to lure Dante into a trap on Mallet Island. Mundus sends his minions Phantom, Nelo Angelo and Griffon after him. Phantom is slain by Dante's hand as well as Nelo Angelo and when Griffon is on the brink of death, he asks Mundus to lend him some of his power. But Mundus, not tolerating failure, heartlessly kills Griffon.

Mundus has Trish and Nightmare set a trap for Dante, only for Dante to win, but spares Trish because he looks like his mother. When Dante confronts Mundus, rather than fight him fairly at first, he uses Trish as a hostage and tries to kill Dante without a fight. Trish takes a laser meant for Dante and Dante and Mundus fight. But Mundus, even after Dante defeats him in battle, cannot be killed and Dante has no choice but to retreat and leave Mundus. But in one last act, Mundus creates a tear in dimensions and tries to drag Dante into the Underworld, only for Dante to be saved by Trish and the two re-seal Mundus away, with Mundus swearing he'll return.

What makes him uniquely bad in comparison to other villains?(higher body count. Particularly evil actions)

He was evil enough that his reign in the Underworld made Sparda, a fellow demon, wake up to justice and betray him. While his depravity isn't as visible or present as characters like Arkham and Sanctus, he still in many scenes shows what an evil bastard he is.

Mundus creating Trish to look like Eva is a huge punch in the face to Dante and Mundus knows this. He created her with the intention of luring him into a trap where he would possibly have to murder the image of his own mother. He knew that he would get attached to her or see a potential love interest in Trish, and knew that if Dante saw through her facade or if she revealed her true intentions, that Dante would essentially be killing his own mother, or rather an image of her.

His treatment of his minions is also notable. Arkham, Sid and Sanctus either don't have forces to be dicks to or simply possesses followers who are both loyal and as badshit insane as them. Mundus clearly has a loyal minion of Phantom and Nightmare, one is clearly a bloodthirsty monster who likes killing people and the other is more a weapon than a sentient being. However his treatment of Griffon, Trish and Nelo Angelo are disgusting. Griffon was his right-hand man and when he fails to defeat Dante, Mundus instead of helping out his number one henchmen, kills him and calls him a failure despite the former's loyalty and devotion. Nelo Angelo is just a brainwashed puppet and also another way to screw with Dante's head, as when he is revealed to be Vergil and Dante kills him, Dante is clearly affected by it years later, as his more serious and quiet demeanour in Devil May Cry 2 could be seen as a sign of depression, not to mention him retrieving Yamato in Devil May Cry 4 is clearly important to him. Trish is also just a puppet for Mundus to use, she serves him loyally like Griffon does and what does Mundus do after she is spared by Dante? Takes her hostage and threatens to kill her so that Mundus can act like a coward and try and kill Dante without a fight.

Mundus has no sense of loyalty or compassion for any of his allies. He wanted nothing but power and control over the Underworld and to conquer the human world too. He slayed his former king, the God of Evil, who may or may not have been worse or a more noble and compassionate ruler, but the fact he betrayed his former ruler is shown he clearly is just a selfish greedy and amoral asshole.

Does he have a Freudian Excuse or any redeeming qualities? Or agency issues?

He has no real good qualities. He lacks any loyalty, compassion or love for any of his allies and is willing to use and disposes of them to achieve his goals. While he does have a son in the form of Berial, it's clear that he would only have Berial rule in his absence or make him as bad a ruler as himself. Mundus doesn't care about love, justice, order or balance, he is nothing but a typical demon, a malevolent, sadistic and evil-worshiping spawn of Hell.

Final Verdict.

Despite not having as much screen-time as characters like Arkham or Sanctus, and seeming like a stereotypical demon lord archetype in ways, Mundus is still the epitome of evil and darkness in the Devil May Cry universe. He is Sparda's greatest enemy and one of the most depraved and heinous characters in the series. Mundus is a true demon by nature and will use, kill, torture, dispose and betray anyone just to obtain power and conquest.

Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#151215: Feb 22nd 2019 at 3:25:28 AM

So, should I make a proper post for Gabara the Ancient given he's gotten a lot of yays and no nays?

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#151216: Feb 22nd 2019 at 4:18:33 AM

[tup] Nyarly, Manga!Bellum, and Jael. [tdown] Mundus still, given his power he really doesn't do enough with his resources. The stuff about him leading an army and stuff is still mostly Offscreen Villainy.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#151217: Feb 22nd 2019 at 4:26:06 AM

...Yeah, I would like Mundus to count but his onscreen actions aren't worse than what the confimed C Ms pulled. Especially in term of ressources, Mundus is the leader of hell while Arkham is a mere human Evil Sorcerer and Sid a low ranked demon.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#151218: Feb 22nd 2019 at 4:43:07 AM

Hey guys, i’m back! It took some much needed rest and some medicine, but i’m feeling MUCH better than a few days ago. I’m planning on making an new effort post to make up for my absence. Also, [tup] to everyone i’ve missed (I had a huge feeling Bellum would count) except for Mundus, Grogar, and Wizard. Don’t get me wrong, Mundus is an pretty nasty individual, and as a long time Devil May Cry fan, I would know. But in the end, he pales in comparison to Arkham, Sanctus, and Sid. Maybe if by some chance he makes an return appearance in Devil May Cry 5, maybe just MAYBE he could count if his actions are heinous, but where it stands now, he doesn’t count.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Feb 22nd 2019 at 4:43:44 AM

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#151221: Feb 22nd 2019 at 5:07:44 AM

Hey guys, i’ve been wondering on a certain Sonic villain that i’m considering on proposing. It’s an villain from the spin off, tv show Sonic Boom. Personally I LOVE this show, it’s fun and entertaining, though it is sometimes judged too harshly by some folk. Of course, no one counts in the show itself, but the villain in question comes from one of the 3 games based on the series, in which the first two are known for..... Infamous reasons, while Fire and Ice was decent. The villain is none other than Lyric from Rise of Lyric, who I believe does enough to count for Sonic Boom’s standards. There is two things, that I want to go over with you guys however before I start the effort post. First off, has he been discussed before? Secondly, there’s his backstory, where he decides to rid the world of all organic, when he falls ill while studying the chaos crystals, and had to make an robotic suit to survive, declaring machines are the only things you can trust, though he doesn’t exactly CARE for these machines though. Do you guys consider this tragic, or that it doesn’t justify Lyric’s actions in the story one bit, because I know a few C Ms who appear to have tragic backstories, but would later avert them, and ultimately become monsters anyways, like Zoom for example.

Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#151222: Feb 22nd 2019 at 5:16:40 AM

Does he pass the absolute heinous standard?

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#151223: Feb 22nd 2019 at 5:23:08 AM

[up] Well, he wants to destroy all organic life, he outright tries to kill Eggman by hijacking Metal Sonic to attack him after he failed him one too many times, attacking an village where the game makes it pretty clear that lives were at risk, and boy does it make it clear because the main heroes NEVER STOP TALKING, and then there’s him making an sadistic choice to Sonic’s friends to surrender the crystals, or watch Sonic get mercilessly gunned down by huge robots, they decide to surrender the crystals, but Lyric orders his bots to brutally shoot Sonic anyways, nearly killing him. And I think there’s a few more, but i’m ain’t for certain. For Boom’s heinous standard, I think he does enough.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Feb 22nd 2019 at 5:23:48 AM

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#151224: Feb 22nd 2019 at 5:25:42 AM

Lyric in the game doesn't probably count considering he has a legitimate excuse in most of his actions due to not being save by the ancient civilization he put his trust on, and lacking much actions.

Also my opinion only, but I think the problem with Mundus isn't the heinousness factor, rather that many of his worst acts are off-screen. If we see his reign of terror first-hand, I believe it might actually push Mundus to the forefront, but unless we can see it we can't count. If Devil May Cry had a book detailing that part of the Devil May Cry universe, I can see it similar to the previous Bioshock candidates but as of now it just doesn't work.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#151225: Feb 22nd 2019 at 5:29:09 AM

As someone who has played Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric (I thought it was going to be So Bad, It's Good and was horribly mistaken just bugs mejust bugs mejust bugs me) I don't feel like Lyric counts. Both because he does have a Freudian Excuse and because he's generic. Villains like Dark Doomy Doomy Alien Lord and Mephiles do far more damage and are far more memorable than Lyric.

Edited by Tyk5919 on Feb 22nd 2019 at 8:31:49 AM

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.

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