During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to Nylarthotep and Scarka
Now then Scraggle mentioned a while back that the Manga version of Bellum might qualify as a CM so I’ve read the manga adaptation The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass and I’m ready to EP Bellum. But first let us talk about the work.
What’s the Work?
The Manga adaptation of The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass follows the similar plot of the Video Game in that Link sails with Tetra's crew on the trail of the mysterious Ghost Ship. When the ship is in sight, Tetra goes aboard and disappears, prompting Link to go on after her. He is tossed from the ship, and wakes up on a strange island where a fairy named Ciela finds him.
During his quest to save Tetra, he meets up with Linebeck, the captain of a steam boat, and the wise but mysterious old man Oshus. Oshus gives Link the titular Phantom Hourglass to ward off the curse placed over the Temple of the Ocean King by Bellum, a demonic creature that is steadily sapping the life out of the realm. It's up to Link to find Tetra and slay Bellum before he sucks the last of the realm dry.
Now the manga also some differences to the video game’s story which includes this version of Bellum.
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
Bellum serves as the Big Bad of this manga, who serves as an evil deity draining dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of livings beings of their life energy, and has plagued the World of the Ocean King for a long period of time, slowly killing his victims along the way. Among these victims whose Bellum’s life force he drains includes the Ocean King himself, taking numerous amounts of life force, leaving the Ocean King as a frail old man whose dying because Bellum is still feeding on his life force.
He would also use the Ghost Ship to lure his victims to him, with illusion of treasure on the ship. He would then drain his victims of their life-force killing them in process. Through this method Bellum has claimed the live of a lot of innocent people, including all of Lindbeck’s crew, except for Lindbeck of course, and Tetra whom Bellum turned into stone, while continuing to drain her of her life-force.
Bellum was also responsible for Celia’s loss of memory, as his constant feeding on her caused her soul to be torn apart, stripping Celia of her position as the Spirit of Time and Courage in the process. Bellum then orders one of his minions, Crayk, to destroy the spirit girl containing Celia’s memories so that Celia could never be whole again, but Link’s kills Crayk and restores Celia to her former self.
After Link recovers Tetra in her stone form and sets out to forge the one weapon that can kill Bellum and his Phantoms, the Phantom sword, Bellum shows up and forcibly possessing Link’s friend Lindbeck. Bellum then gives Link an ultimatum; either show in the Temple of the Ocean King and give him the Phantom Hourglass, a key component to making the Phantom Sword, or else he will kill Lindbeck.
Link goes to the Temple of the Ocean King to give Bellum the Phantom Hourglass in exchange for Lindbeck’s life. However Bellum goes back on his word and forces Lindbeck to fight Link to the death, uncaring if either Link kills Lindbeck or Lindbeck kills Link, as Bellum would reap enormous amounts of life force from the loser.
Link tries to reached the possessed Lindbeck, but its revealed the Bellum had put Lindbeck in And I Must Scream situation, in the he’s completely aware that Bellum is forcing Lindbeck to kill his own friend, put is powerless to stop. Unable to live with killing Link but unable to stop Bellum from controlling Lindbeck tries to kill himself, which Bellum sadistically allow so that he may reap Linbeck’s life force.
Luckily, Link with the help of Celia manages to forge the Phantom Sword just in time to critically wound Bellum forcing him out of Lindbeck’s body, thus saving Lindbeck from committing suicide, while also reviving Tetra from her petrified state and revert The Ocean King to his true form. Bellum was not done yet as he use his remaining strength to drag The Ocean King into the depths of the ocean, to drown and kill him. However Link land’s the killing blow on Bellum, saving the Ocean King, and ending Bellum’s rain of terror once and for all.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?
All that’s known about Bellum’s past was that he has drained the life-force of his numerous victims, all to suffice his appetite and that he hates the Ocean King for taking so long to die while he drains him of his life force. That’s It.
As for any redeeming or militating qualities, while the video game portrayed Bellum as a mindless animal, this cannot be said for this manga interpretation of Bellum. In the manga, Bellum is completely self-aware and sapient, having many dialogue in the manga.
He’s fully aware that he is killing innocent beings, and causing immense suffering towards them, but doesn’t care at all so long as he gets there life-force. In fact he takes sadistic pleasure in what he does wether it be relishing suffering of slowly killing his victims, to making Lindbeck relive the time Bellum killed his crew right in front of him or subjecting him into And I Must Scream fate when he’s forced to fight Link to the death, taking sadistic glee in Lindbeck trying to kill himself.
In all the Manga version of Bellum is given enough characterization avoid being a Generic Doomsday Villain, but not enough to make him redeemable and sympathetic, making the end result of Bellum being a sentient and sadistic monster who does what he does because he enjoys it.
Heinousness
As the Big Bad of this standalone manga Bellum sets the heinous standard.
Not only that but his MO of draining his victims of their life-force until they die leading to a slow death, and having a high body count to boot. For the few who survived Bellum's sadistic apatite they are met to not so pleasant fates. They include Tetra being turned into stone, Celia’s spirit ripped apart resulting in her amnesia, and The Ocean King becoming an frail and weak old man, needing Link to save them from those fates. That’s not even mentioning what he subjects Lindbeck through.
All of that plus Bellum’s added characterization, and the fact that this is a standalone manga, Bellum basically is the heinous standard.
Final Verdict?
I’ll leave that to you guys to decide!
Edited by G-Editor on Feb 21st 2019 at 7:24:59 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Mnga!Bell
All we need now is to check on two things regarding Zant's manga counterpart:
- See if he is as bad as his Video Game counterpart.
- Check and see if he is different enough to warrant a separate entry.
Edited by MasterJoseph on Feb 21st 2019 at 9:40:49 AM
IPP Wick Check created.Papayru30 I get the feeling . I had the same feeling about Majora from The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask until he was voted down due to Blue-and-Orange Morality. Though I still have to thank Majora since my wondering of why he didn't count brought me to this forum.
Speaking of which I'm wondering if the Manga version of Majora qualifies or not?
Any who now you all got me excited for another Legend of Zelda baddie with the name of Veran (and possibly Manga! Zant), looking forward to see Veran's EP!
BTW thanks for mentioning Bellum Scraggle, I'll start working on his write-up tomorrow
Edited by G-Editor on Feb 21st 2019 at 8:44:46 AM
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffSo final and second ep from daughter of smoke and bone. Joram’s little brother and head of his elite forces : Jael
So who is the villain and what have they done?
Jael is the sadistic head of the dominion (Joram’s elite forces) and a man with a huge, ugly scar running down his face which he got by brutally murdering (implied raping as well) of Akiva’s mother when she fought back. The dominin are feared even by the rest of the seraphim forces for their exceptional brutality, Jael leads them on brutal purges of chimeria villages where even children and unarmed woman are massacred to the point even other seraphim forces find it vile. Jael is also an expectionally found of torture. Upon capturing a chimeria soldier, he had the guy tortured excretionallty over hours and in a ‘’really’’ bad Kick the Dog moment. He started to ‘’forcefed him the ashes of his deceased comrades so that he’d choke on his comrades remains’’
Jael like his brother is also a Serial Rapist himself. Jael forces woman to sleep with him by threat of death and uses his own female soldiers as he demands a new woman every night. Anyhow, after Akiva assianted Joram (Check his ep for more details here), Jael reveals that he’d actually planned and figured Akiva would do this eventually. Akiva’s plan was to let Japeth (No idea. What’s up with the J themed family name), joram’s heir takeover. Japeth is a cowardly and weak willed and hence would abandon the war as unlike his bloodthirsty father, Japeth would be too scared to try anything.
Now Jael kills Japeth to become emperor and orders his forces to massacre all the guards and servants in the room to ensure their will be no witnesses well expect for his niece Liraz, he intends to keep her as his personal Sex Slave. So liraz and Akiva escape, though only their brother Hakeev sarcfing his life in order to save them and join the chimeria forces.
Now we hit Jael’s ultimate plan, having discovered earth and the portal to it via a Fallen Angel named Razgut. Jael intends to make himsle know to the public there (which he does) and make himsle seem like a messiah. There he’ll warn people of the evil beasts (chimeria) and terachous angels (stellians) and have people (apocalypse cults and nutters) give him weapons of mass destruction like guns and missles as a sort of gift to show their diligence. With these, Jale intends to brutally crush the chimeria and stellains (This is a medivial era world. Eratz, so they’d be no match for something like this). The streets are going to run ‘’red with blood’’ as he boasts after this is done with no mercy. So during the wait for one of these nutters, he takes the time to brutally beat and torture Razgut to take out his frustrations at this taking longer than expected. Eventually, they do find a buyer whose willing to sell them the stuff in return if their allowed to strip mine Eratz. Thankfully Akiva and Karou stop said buyer and send Jael running back to his home dimension of Eratz. There he returns to his palace and orders a full on asslaut on the rebels.
Only….to find out that while he was away Liraz and the other Misbegotten (Joram’s kids) and The shadows that live (Chimeria elite) had taken over in a Bloodless Coup. Akiva also mocks him as they’d dissolved the empire and throne position while he was away making him the few days emperor. As Jael screams, Liraz drags him away in cuffs for a ‘’’very long’’ imprisonment that’s gonna hurt.
Nope.
Other mitigating factors?
Nah. Now Jael is fun in that he acknowledges he’s a horror and seems to be self-aware of his cm position. There is nothing good about the guy, he’s a despicable man and family member and Bad Boss to the max.
Heinous standard?
I think he passes. Jael is a very different badguy to his brother. If his brother is the Hitler/Stalin who founds the evil empire and system than Jael is the Himmler/Beria. An evil man who got into a position of power and uses it to hurt people because he likes it. A lot of the worst of Joram’s polices are covered by him including the village purges which he takes with epectional relish. He's also got a bit more of a personal touch than his brother with the feeding the ashes of a chimeria soldiers comrades to him and the or chaster of the murder of Akiva's mother as well as intending to turn his niece into a Sex Slave.
That and on his own. He’s a despicable torturer, rapist and Bad Boss with his ultimate plan being a cleansing of the stellains and chimeria which easily pushes him over.
So Pass says I.
Conclusion
Edited by miraculous on Feb 21st 2019 at 11:08:13 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Sure to Nyarlathotep.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread