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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#150326: Feb 18th 2019 at 4:32:59 AM

King Washington sounds... a bit too tricky for me to cast a decisive vote without perusing the media myself in some form. There's a lot of contrasting opinions going around.

@Newton: Sure, cut away.

hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
#150327: Feb 18th 2019 at 4:46:41 AM

[tdown] Washington. Lucid Memory Fragments shows Connor experienced alternate reality because he touched Apple of Eden which means that alternate reality is vision created by Apple.

Edited by hegelvonaxel on Feb 18th 2019 at 4:58:56 AM

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#150328: Feb 18th 2019 at 5:29:39 AM

[tdown] Washington.

Most heinous villain who isn't a Complete Monster? My pick would go to a certain toxic kid whose name I can't mention because I do no want to risk opening a can of worms. He seemed like one of the most outright evil characters of his franchise.

Help me!
Devoted2Nintendo Since: Jul, 2018
#150329: Feb 18th 2019 at 6:06:01 AM

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know when all of the latest write-ups are going on their respective pages? That usually happens at the beginning of the week, doesn't it? I haven't seen ACW post them here yet like he usually does.

Oh, and someone brought up the topic of who we think are the most heinous characters that don't count, at least among what we've seen? Well, as Lighty already knows from when I first started posting here, I have to say Joseph/Cartaphilus from The Ancient Magus' Bride. Murdering and conducting vile experiments on numerous innocent people and creatures alike for how long, decades? Here's just one example; at one point, he graphically dissects a dragon who's the equivalent of a child, traumatizing the other one he's kidnapped so badly that he later morphs into an Eldritch Abomination of sorts. I get it, you're trying to end your own excruciating pain, but growing to actually enjoy inflicting it on everyone else loses you major sympathy points from me. I think Lighty even agrees with me on that one.

Some other notable recent examples would be Kugaha from Noragami (appallingly selfish and hypocritical, to the point of dooming many of his fellow "useless' regalia who are like him to a Fate Worse than Death by having them devoured by a phantom), and not surprising at all given the series' extremely dark, nihilistic tone, Kazuho Yoshii and Kano, the main antagonists from Texhnolyze. In fact, I think the only reason Kano was disqualified was because Ravok argued that he was too legitimately insane, being a solipsist who thinks everyone else only exists within his mind and that he's reality itself.

Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Feb 18th 2019 at 9:48:21 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#150330: Feb 18th 2019 at 6:12:20 AM

....

Oh man! Texhnolyze and Noragami. I actually been meaning to look on that but turned down because of that reasons and I'll probably trust Lighty that Noragami has no keepers. But for MB, maybe it could be a different story.

Man, would be a lot nice if I could cover more iconic or popular animes I guess... So far for CM perspective, I got Darling in The Franxx and will look at Log Horizon, Re:Zero, Gakkou Gurashi, World God Only Knows, Negima and Konosuba at later future. Oh right... Asterisk can also count as one of the most popular anime and so does Akashic Records. Sailor Moons another one but only for the movie.

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Feb 18th 2019 at 9:15:32 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#150331: Feb 18th 2019 at 6:16:18 AM

Most of those have no keepers. Noragami has only one potential in the manga I'm watching.

Negima is almost comical in how not evil most of the villains are.

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 18th 2019 at 9:16:55 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#150332: Feb 18th 2019 at 6:18:04 AM

Devoted, I was just waiting on something. I'll submit them now.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#150333: Feb 18th 2019 at 6:18:11 AM

For Gakkou Gurashi? I know the anime doesn't have one. But I'm going to sightseeing at the manga. Same with World God Only Knows. That and I think Re:Zero is still ongoing so yeah... I'm still putting Log Horizon on the list too for clarification

Anyways, pertaining to Hegel and MGD points regarding Washington, I might gonna change into abstain for a second thought. Any arguments G?

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Feb 18th 2019 at 9:19:42 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#150334: Feb 18th 2019 at 6:19:23 AM

I'm saying no to Washington. Setting aside the weird vision stuff, it is strongly, strongly indicated the Apple is screwing with him. First Civilization tech can badly change you.

@ Micheal: Actually, I got up the evil cannibal George Washington from Masters of Horror.

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 18th 2019 at 9:20:28 AM

Devoted2Nintendo Since: Jul, 2018
#150335: Feb 18th 2019 at 6:25:07 AM

@ACW: Okay, thanks for telling me. I was starting to get a little concerned that something was wrong.

@Elfen: I still can't believe I actually made it through Texhnolyze, to be honest. Most of what I watch in terms of anime and other entertainment is nowhere near that dark and bleak, and doesn't contain nearly as much graphic content, like all the brutal, bloody violence, the scattered bits of nudity, etc. I mostly watched it because of how unique and thought-provoking it was, especially the way it made use of minimalism and Silence Is Golden.

Actually, I just thought of a couple of other especially heinous characters who aren't C Ms from Western Animation; Professor Pericles from Scoody Doo: Mystery Incorporated for being impressively dark and vile for the Scooby-Doo franchise's standards, only to be outdone by the Nibiru Entity at the end, as well as Haggar/Honerva from Voltron: Legendary Defender. Yes, her motive was sympathetic and she redeems herself in the end, but she nearly destroys all reality for crying out loud.

Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Feb 18th 2019 at 10:42:15 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#150336: Feb 18th 2019 at 6:36:28 AM

@AustinDR Well at least two versions of the Joker were rejected if you recall. That said, I’m not that familiar with Dragonball, so I can’t comment.

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#150337: Feb 18th 2019 at 6:39:45 AM

[tdown] to Washington, his agency sounds pretty screwy to me.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#150338: Feb 18th 2019 at 6:40:26 AM

@Lightysnake Oh, did not knew that.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#150339: Feb 18th 2019 at 6:59:38 AM

[tdown][tdown][tdown][tdown][tdown][tdown][tdown][tdown][tdown] Washington now and forever.

The whole DLC was a vision of what may happen if George Washington took the Apple. It is not real in the context of Assassin's Creed. We may as well add that clown Bart had nightmares about.

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#150341: Feb 18th 2019 at 7:08:45 AM

[tdown]Washington

I didn't know it was just a dream. No way he can count than if it's just an in universe delusion.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#150343: Feb 18th 2019 at 7:32:26 AM

[tdown] to Washington due to the Apple doing too many funny things to his head to make me comfortable in saying he has actual agency.

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#150346: Feb 18th 2019 at 7:38:13 AM

Then changing a no vote to Washington in that case.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#150347: Feb 18th 2019 at 7:38:43 AM

[tdown] Washington.

@Devoted 2 Nintendo: With Pericles, it's less "he was outdone in heinousness by the Nibiru Entity", as Pericles was still as heinous as his resources allowed him to be, and more that his entire identity was literally tied to the Entity's very existence, which seriously impairs his sense of agency. We see in the end that in a reality where the Entity never existed, Pericles turns out completely different and harmless. So basically, Pericles was only a monster because of the existence of an even bigger monster making him into one.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#150348: Feb 18th 2019 at 7:39:00 AM

Welp, [tdown] Washington. Ah well, at least one version of the guy counted.

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#150349: Feb 18th 2019 at 7:41:57 AM

Yeah, I'm changing to [tdown] to Washington as well.

Devoted2Nintendo Since: Jul, 2018
#150350: Feb 18th 2019 at 7:50:25 AM

[up][up][up] I'm sorry, that came out a little wrong; I didn't mean that Nibiru overshadowing him was the reason he didn't make it and am fully aware it's because he was literally possessed and being influenced him by him the whole time. What I meant was in the end, while the Nibiru Entity is even more dark, terrifying, and actually fits all the aspects of the trope, he still stands out a lot in his own right for doing all those nasty things under it's influence. I just didn't think I had to directly mention that since everyone who's seen it by now already knows that's the case.

Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Feb 18th 2019 at 10:52:19 AM


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