During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
@Lightysnake The work is House of Ghosts.
Edited by 11111001011 on Feb 17th 2019 at 10:04:57 AM
Help me!I just want to quickly openly express how relieved I am to finally see that Kurau Phantom Memory entry cleaned up. I don't like to go out of my way to be critical about these sorts of things since constructing completely ideal write-ups is not my forte, so I can relate and sympathize to that... but that particular one really felt like it needed it. Most of it felt too much like this strange, rambling tangent of sorts with potholes absolutely everywhere (as in an average of close to 2 per sentence).
Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Feb 17th 2019 at 12:06:44 PM
I really like Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, so here's my rewrite for Koba:
- Dawn of the Planet of the Apes: Koba is a xenophobic ape initially loyal to Caesar. Disgusted with the fact that Caesar would bring humans into their territory, Koba decides to betray his leader and take matters into his own hands. Displaying his callousness by murdering two helpless guards, Koba raids the armory of the human city, returning to shoot Caesar and burn down his former home. Pinning the blame on the humans, Koba rallies the misguided apes into attacking San Francisco. Koba shows his hypocritical nature by cruelly tossing the young Ash to his death when he refuses to kill defenseless people in Caesar's name. Upon taking over the city, Koba imposes his rule by trapping the humans in cages and imprisoning any ape still loyal to Caesar in chains. When finally confronted by Caesar, Koba snaps and starts gunning down his former comrades, even as Caesar is trying to help them. Displaying savagery to human and ape alike, Koba proved to be no better than the humans he despised.
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Rewrote the last sentence. Better?
Edited by chasemaddigan on Feb 17th 2019 at 10:57:11 AM
I like it but do we need the last sentence? A Complete Monster being deemed unworthy of saving by The Hero doesn't sound like a one-off thing.
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Works for me!
Edited by 43110 on Feb 17th 2019 at 11:22:43 AM
Vecna. Oh, is that who that was? I remember Vecna having a robe that made its way to the Athkatlan Adventure Mart but I never heard anything about him as a person.
With Xehanort’s removal I’m wondering, apart from Master X, who are the most heinous non C Ms in your opinion?
I’d say probably Pelley from Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg, because while he’s a genocidal fascist and the closest thing the setting has to a Hitler expy, by virtue of him being a player character and the player being able to play him somewhat less extreme than what he ought to be. Also he does have genuine regrets about one of the policies he implements.
@Xie: Ariels from Guilty Gear. Destroyed a whole country, made tykebombs out of her daughters, Mind Rape, planned to use the survivors of the destroyed country as fodder, prepared to eliminate the human race.
Doesn't count because her very last line was "Take care of my daughters."
Esdeath...
One of the reasons why I had a huge passion on trying to EP female C Ms because why not.
Since I'm a little bit bored discussing last minute redeeming quality villains... I'm gonna say that one of the most heinous non-CM would be Clovis the Redeemer. The guy could easily count in other settings except hes on fucking Warhammer so yeah.
Or heck, I could consider Van Zant or Karl Arnold to be most heinous non-CM. But the heinous standard of their respective works is just ridiculous, its not even funny anymore
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Feb 18th 2019 at 12:34:48 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."@Hamburger Time iirc Ambar said it was due to heinousness issues in his anti EP on Arnold.
Also, sure on Vecna.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Feb 18th 2019 at 12:41:39 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."Most heinous non-CMs: Neville Sinclair, John Gieger, Dylan Gould and Rowan North instantly spring to mind (all near-misses or cuts due to heinousness).
Oh yeah, I forgot Ratigan, Merlock and Lasombra.
Again, anyone think that idea for someone who wishes to do so to find the original Speed script and EP the Big Bad version of Harry Temple is an interesting idea?
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 17th 2019 at 9:57:37 AM

Gotta love when potholes beget potholes...