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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#150276: Feb 17th 2019 at 7:03:53 PM

Gotta love when potholes beget potholes...

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#150277: Feb 17th 2019 at 7:04:47 PM

@Lightysnake The work is House of Ghosts.

Edited by 11111001011 on Feb 17th 2019 at 10:04:57 AM

Help me!
Devoted2Nintendo Since: Jul, 2018
#150278: Feb 17th 2019 at 7:22:43 PM

I just want to quickly openly express how relieved I am to finally see that Kurau Phantom Memory entry cleaned up. I don't like to go out of my way to be critical about these sorts of things since constructing completely ideal write-ups is not my forte, so I can relate and sympathize to that... but that particular one really felt like it needed it. Most of it felt too much like this strange, rambling tangent of sorts with potholes absolutely everywhere (as in an average of close to 2 per sentence).

Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Feb 17th 2019 at 12:06:44 PM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#150279: Feb 17th 2019 at 7:30:35 PM

The volume of potholes in it doesn't even get into the fact that two get recycled and one is a YMMV item... nor does it even getting into the structural issues we discussed in PMs.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#150280: Feb 17th 2019 at 7:39:26 PM

I really like Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, so here's my rewrite for Koba:

[down][down] Rewrote the last sentence. Better?

Edited by chasemaddigan on Feb 17th 2019 at 10:57:11 AM

Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#150282: Feb 17th 2019 at 7:47:37 PM

I like it but do we need the last sentence? A Complete Monster being deemed unworthy of saving by The Hero doesn't sound like a one-off thing.

[up][up] Works for me!

Edited by 43110 on Feb 17th 2019 at 11:22:43 AM

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#150283: Feb 17th 2019 at 7:50:37 PM

Yeah, that was one of the extraneous details I was referencing.

Why so serious?
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#150284: Feb 17th 2019 at 7:53:35 PM

[tup]Viktor, King and Vecna

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
MinisterOfSinister From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye! from In the Hall of the Mountain King Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
#150286: Feb 17th 2019 at 8:13:17 PM

[tup] Vecna. Oh, is that who that was? I remember Vecna having a robe that made its way to the Athkatlan Adventure Mart but I never heard anything about him as a person.

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#150287: Feb 17th 2019 at 8:21:56 PM

Has anyone looked at my proposed rewrite for Aleria?

Help me!
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#150288: Feb 17th 2019 at 8:43:16 PM

With Xehanort’s removal I’m wondering, apart from Master X, who are the most heinous non C Ms in your opinion?

I’d say probably Pelley from Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg, because while he’s a genocidal fascist and the closest thing the setting has to a Hitler expy, by virtue of him being a player character and the player being able to play him somewhat less extreme than what he ought to be. Also he does have genuine regrets about one of the policies he implements.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#150289: Feb 17th 2019 at 8:48:44 PM

@Xie

White diamond. Who committed universe wide genocide. And took control of several other gems.

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 17th 2019 at 8:51:10 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#150290: Feb 17th 2019 at 9:01:08 PM

@Xie: Ariels from Guilty Gear. Destroyed a whole country, made tykebombs out of her daughters, Mind Rape, planned to use the survivors of the destroyed country as fodder, prepared to eliminate the human race.

Doesn't count because her very last line was "Take care of my daughters."

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#150291: Feb 17th 2019 at 9:07:14 PM

[Insert rant about Wataru Himeji]

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#150292: Feb 17th 2019 at 9:12:32 PM

Esdeath immediately springs to mind.

Why so serious?
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#150293: Feb 17th 2019 at 9:32:02 PM

Esdeath...

One of the reasons why I had a huge passion on trying to EP female C Ms because why not.

Since I'm a little bit bored discussing last minute redeeming quality villains... I'm gonna say that one of the most heinous non-CM would be Clovis the Redeemer. The guy could easily count in other settings except hes on fucking Warhammer so yeah.

Or heck, I could consider Van Zant or Karl Arnold to be most heinous non-CM. But the heinous standard of their respective works is just ridiculous, its not even funny anymore

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Feb 18th 2019 at 12:34:48 AM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#150294: Feb 17th 2019 at 9:39:10 PM

...wow, how did I not notice Karl got the axe? Was it heinousness issues, his FE being too strong, or something else?

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#150295: Feb 17th 2019 at 9:40:46 PM

Heinousness issues, yeah.

He was cut, like, a year ago if I recall correctly.

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Feb 17th 2019 at 12:40:54 PM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#150296: Feb 17th 2019 at 9:41:15 PM

@Hamburger Time iirc Ambar said it was due to heinousness issues in his anti EP on Arnold.

Also, sure on Vecna.

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Feb 18th 2019 at 12:41:39 AM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#150297: Feb 17th 2019 at 9:51:53 PM

Heinousness yeah, I remember that one because Ambar gave us a nice numerical breakdown of his potential victim count [lol]

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#150298: Feb 17th 2019 at 9:54:54 PM

Yeah Karl is bad but even by early villains. Guys like Buford, Floyd and Anita blow him away.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#150299: Feb 17th 2019 at 9:56:08 PM

Most heinous non-CMs: Neville Sinclair, John Gieger, Dylan Gould and Rowan North instantly spring to mind (all near-misses or cuts due to heinousness).

Oh yeah, I forgot Ratigan, Merlock and Lasombra.

Again, anyone think that idea for someone who wishes to do so to find the original Speed script and EP the Big Bad version of Harry Temple is an interesting idea?

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 17th 2019 at 9:57:37 AM

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#150300: Feb 17th 2019 at 9:57:02 PM

Ah, Criminal Minds. How I love you and your ridiculous heinous standard. You know things are fucked when a serial killer of families isn't bad enough to stand out.

And yes to the Shield Hero guy, and no to the Supersonic Warriors version of Frieza.


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