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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#150026: Feb 16th 2019 at 6:21:21 PM

The current vote for the quotes stand at 3[tup] and one [tdown] for the first Gillyflower quote, one [tdown] for the second, 4[tup] and one[tdown] each for the other two (bullman did vote when I originally posted the quotes with [tup] to the Leach and Gruber quotes and a maybe on the Gillyflower quotes)

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#150027: Feb 16th 2019 at 6:23:47 PM

Also gonna say no to all but the first.

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#150028: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:00:25 PM

How is this for a quote from Thrax?

You know what, Jones? You want this chain so bad, Big Daddy Thrax is gonna let you have it! Looks good on ya, Jones! You wear it well! It's a shame you had to come this far from home just to die.

Help me!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#150029: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:01:43 PM

It sounds like he's dressing him up with a new accessory there. Loses its oomph without the visuals.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#150030: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:03:02 PM

The quote doesn't make it clear what's happening so no.

Lighty what do you think of these quotes

Edited by papyru30 on Feb 16th 2019 at 8:04:46 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#150031: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:04:08 PM

No to the Thrax quote for the reasons mentioned above.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 16th 2019 at 10:08:34 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#150032: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:09:55 PM

Oh, sorry, Papyru...I'm in agreement with the first working

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#150033: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:11:02 PM

Looking back at the quote page... I'm kind of wondering if it wouldn't be a bad idea to do another review of that. It's gotten bloated again and a lot of those quotes kind of skim the definition of appropriate.

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#150034: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:13:48 PM

[up][up] What do you mean?

[up] That would probably be a good idea.

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#150035: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:14:52 PM

I just came across a video that claims to be a tribute to Complete Monsters, but has examples you mightn't agree with.

Help me!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#150036: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:15:27 PM

Ones I think can be cut? ""I came here to see if there was anything that could move my heart. But it seems I am free" from Griffith.

"Vicious: There was nothing to look up to. There was no me to believe in." from Vicious.

""In the end, you're nothing more than a crazy serial killer. That's all you are. Nothing more, and nothing less."" from Near on Light

@ Papyru: the first quote.

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 16th 2019 at 10:18:24 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#150037: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:16:52 PM

11, Okay...Just to say...it's kinda funny how that video OPENS with a clear Non-Keeper.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#150038: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:18:35 PM

Here's one that I'm shocked got posted

"I fucking hate my mom." from My Name Is Cinder

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#150039: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:19:05 PM

So is someone going to individually look at each folder?

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#150040: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:21:47 PM

@Papyru

Oh that's ridiculously bad.....Not only is it basic Jerkass thing to say...but not only does context not make the line worse. Context makes cinder saying that completely justifed, as while that fics cinder is a monster, her mother is a BITCH(And is also listed as a CM for good reason)

Things are really about to get Fun around here
papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#150041: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:27:37 PM

[up] I know right!

Ok so based on the votes, only the first Gillyflower quote counts so I'll put that on the drafts page.

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#150042: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:28:11 PM

More than sure that quote came during the string of RWBY fanfic posts...

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#150043: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:31:47 PM

Yeah we might want to cut some quotes that don't fit.

For instance I am not sure on this Rita Repulsa one from Power Rangers (2017).

"Zordon would lose all respect for me if I don’t kill you, at least one of you."

Edited by Bullman on Feb 16th 2019 at 10:42:14 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#150044: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:34:19 PM

Speaking of RWBY fan fic shit, the character (I presume) that's about, Brigit, could probably do without the last three sentences of her writeup. Actually, the whole thing could probably be cut down on if someone knows the work?

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#150045: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:45:13 PM

I haven't been raising the issue up until now because I felt like it would just be causing trouble, but now that it's actually on the table, I wanted to comment that I've felt for AGES like this thread should be vetting quotes way more seriously. It seems like people are trying to put up a quote for every example, and it's really unnecessary - all the time I see these proposed quotes that are just sort of generally villainous or intimidating-sounding, and I feel like it's diluting the definition.

Edited by nrjxll on Feb 16th 2019 at 9:46:18 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#150046: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:45:40 PM

@11 Again, I think the best quote from Thrax is when he talks about his previous victims.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#150047: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:45:41 PM

Since it's a slow night, how about another discussion topic: most surprising moments in the thread for you?

As touched on a ways back, my #1 is definitely Harold Saxon going back up. All logic dictated we were more than done with him - his last appearance gave him a pretty weighty Freudian Excuse, he had a redemptive-ish death taking someone even worse with him, and he seemed Deader than Dead for years. But whoops, there he is again and he hasn't changed one iota.

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#150048: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:47:45 PM

Mine is whenever I see a normally heroic character (like Batman or Snow White) get on this thread.

Help me!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#150049: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:49:00 PM

Most surprising? Probably Floyd being brought back years after I remember this thread dismissing him for clear reasons of insanity. It's like the screenwriters of that episode took a specific look here to invalidate that.

Anyways, I'm fully agreed with Njr. Two things I think would help tremendously are A. a page lock like the other Monster sub-pages and B. a specific idea of what we actually want in a quote. We get too many that are just snippets of a CM saying something evil or instances better suited under You Monster!; there should be a more clear connection to the definition of the trope so it's not just "villain says/does something evil."

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#150050: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:51:57 PM

Agreed on vetting quotes and as for Brigit? Who am I kidding, I got nothing better to do:

  • My Name Is Cinder: Brigit Stark is Cinder Fall's abusive mother, who married her rich father to drive him to suicide and take his wealth. When a young Cinder overhears Brigit attempting to get rid of her unborn younger sibling to drive their father to suicide from grief, having tried the same thing with Cinder and her brother, Sterling, Brigit finds and nearly strangles her to death. Growing impatient, Brigit reveals her intentions to her husband, causing him to commit suicide from horror. Beating Cinder and turning her siblings against her, Brigit eventually poisons Sterling to keep her money and her abuses are what mould Cinder into the monster she would later become.


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