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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#149851: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:45:24 AM

[tup] Loki and I have no issue cutting Sosa.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#149852: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:50:32 AM

No issues on cutting Sosa either.

Alright, so Devoted cast the opinion regarding Ijima writeup in the previous thread. So should we use merged version or separated version?

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Feb 16th 2019 at 10:53:08 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#149853: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:53:43 AM

Cut Sosa.

[up] I say merged version.

Edited by Bullman on Feb 16th 2019 at 10:54:10 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#149854: Feb 16th 2019 at 7:56:40 AM

Here's Muska; I changed the tense, but also de-potholed it, and cut some natter from the first sentence:

  • Castle in the Sky: Romuska Palo Ul/Ur Laputa, known as Colonel Muska, is a ruthless government secret agent who tried to take the flying city of Laputa by force, being actually a descendant of the Laputean monarchy just like Sheeta. Along the way, he commits many heinous crimes such as kidnapping Sheeta and Pazu, threatening to kill Pazu if Sheeta didn't give him the amulet that held the power to control Laputa. When he finally conquers Laputa, however, he becomes mad with power and proceeds to toss his own henchmen from the floating city, all while laughing about it, and intends to use the flying castle's power to wipe out everything in his way so that he can become ruler of the world. He also threatens to shoot Sheeta's ears off after she tried to convince him that the people left Laputa because it was uninhabitable, and when Pazu arrived on the scene, Muska threatens the lives of both children unless they surrendered the crystal back to him. Throughout the film, Muska showed manipulative and emotionally abusive tendencies, a sense of entitlement, greed, hunger for power, revulsion of "disgusting" natural wildlife that he wanted to have burned down, and a willingness to hurt or even kill children if it got him closer to what he wanted.

EDIT: I say merged version. Please add the writeups to the Drafts.

Edited by ACW on Feb 16th 2019 at 10:59:15 AM

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Devoted2Nintendo Since: Jul, 2018
#149856: Feb 16th 2019 at 8:04:47 AM

Actually, I'm going to say the merged version is fine as well if that's what others prefer (in some ways, it's actually a little better written too). My only hope and possible concern is if it can list each of their notable individual crimes as well without being too long. As long as we can do that, I don't have a clear preference.

Edited by Devoted2Nintendo on Feb 16th 2019 at 11:46:12 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#149857: Feb 16th 2019 at 8:05:00 AM

Alright... ACW and Bullman prefer the merged version. I'll wait for others to chime in but in the meantime, I'll add Hayes writeup on the drafts

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#149858: Feb 16th 2019 at 8:09:35 AM

I'll also plan to check Crossgen more.

  • :Battle Angel: Stripped of all his manga redeeming qualities, Vector is a cruel crimelord who reigns over Iron City. Stringing along young Yugo with promises to send him to Zalem, Vector has Yugo and others illegally remove the spines of cyborgs in a black market trade to enrich himself, while also funding highly illegal operations. Vector even executes a victim himself to prove a point to Yugo about witnesses. When Yugo is caught, Vector calmly sells him out to be killed. Not content with this, Vector also keeps the scientist Chiren under his thumb with promises to return her to Zalem, extorting sex from her in the process. Vector later reveals what going to Zalem truly means: murdering people and harvesting them for their organs, which he does on a monthly basis, uncaring why so long as he profits.
  • Dick Tracy: The Fat Man pretends to be a charity Santa to track down rich families so he can rob them. However, the Fat Man has another vice: not content with robbery, he is also a serial killer of children who loves targeting the kids of well-off families so he can hurt them, throttling the children with his bare hands. When his latest victim is saved by Tracy, the Fat Man later attempts to target Tracy and Tess's own child, and tries to kill Tracy himself.
  • Outer Dark: The mysterious trio of terrifying and elusive strangers scourge the Appalachian countryside, killing people at will. Slaughtering their way from one end of the community to the next, the three fixate on Culla, framing him for murder and killing those who come into contact with him, even forcing Culla to partake in cannibalism. By the end of the novel, having killed many people, the trio even torture and murder a tinker who rescued the baby of Culla and his sister Rinthy before torturing the baby, murdering and cannibalizing it as well.
  • Power Pack: Douglas Carmody was a slovenly businessman who blames the Power Pack for his misfortunes, trying to murder the kids as a result. Going into metahuman trafficking, Carmody styles himself as the Bogeyman to target and ell mutant children as slaves and weapons, dreaming of exterminating all of them for money, even trying to give some to demons. When turned into a demon himself, Carmody goes on a killing spree, trying to kill the Power Pack's parents in front of them, handing the world to demons just for a chance at revenge. Returning one last time against Luke Cage as a disembodied spirit, Carmody begins possessing people to go on further killing sprees, trying for Luke Cage's body to start new horrific slaughters.
  • Black House: Mr. Munshun, AKA Malshun or the Monday Man is a demon in service to the Crimson King. Running an operation with countless child slaves who are forced to work to death, Munshun also targets 'Breakers', special children to be delivered to the Crimson King and enslaved for their powers in the King's nightmarish court with the eventual goal of bringing down the Dark Tower and ending existence. Munshun possesses the most twisted killers like Burnside, Albert Fish and Jeffrey Dahmer, helping them to realize their desires and to murder children as long as they send the Breakers back to the Crimson King while murdering any mundane children they encounter, with Munshun glorying in the murders.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#149859: Feb 16th 2019 at 8:10:04 AM

Merged version's alright with me.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#149860: Feb 16th 2019 at 8:12:03 AM

Lighty, should Munshun go before or after Burnside?

We have I think over 50 this week; I KNEW I was Tempting Fate earlier [lol]

Edited by ACW on Feb 16th 2019 at 11:13:01 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#149861: Feb 16th 2019 at 8:13:09 AM

Merged is good.

By the way since munshun got an entry of his own shouldntt Charles Burnside get a rewrite to reflect the changes.

Edited by miraculous on Feb 16th 2019 at 8:13:42 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#149862: Feb 16th 2019 at 8:15:45 AM

I dunno if he needs a rewrite; we can just say "the aforementioned Charles Burnside" or something (I'm thinking Munshun should go first myself).

BTW, since Neverkind has its own page, I'm thinking of changing the header thusly:

Hardestadt Delac, Eliza Cortly and their allies have faced countless foes. Here are the worst.

Edited by ACW on Feb 16th 2019 at 6:14:45 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#149863: Feb 16th 2019 at 8:18:51 AM

What I meant is this

  • The Fisherman, real name Charles Burnside, is a murderer who preys on children. He modeled the method of his crimes after the actual serial killer Albert Fish to outdo him in evil. He rapes, kills, and eats at least three children in the town of French Landing, Wisconsin. He is eventually revealed to be a human agent of the Crimson King. The Fisherman travels through dimensions to seek out psychic children called "Breakers," personally murdering them if they fail to live up to their abilities. Once he has enlisted them in the Crimson King's army, they will then be used to break the remaining beams of the Dark Tower and end all of existence.

Isn't this stuff highlighted what munshun does rather than Burnside.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#149865: Feb 16th 2019 at 8:28:00 AM

Yeah, that needs to be slashed out and rearranged to how Burnside is just an ally of Munshun. I mean technically Munshun is part of the duo that's the Fisherman.

Enigmatic_Mastermind from Limbo Since: Sep, 2018
#149866: Feb 16th 2019 at 8:44:28 AM

So far Sosa has 7[tdown] ACW seems somewhat undecided

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#149867: Feb 16th 2019 at 8:47:12 AM

So, like this?

  • Black House: Both halves of "The Fisherman" count:
    • Mr. Munshun, aka Malshun or the Monday Man, is a demon in service to the Crimson King. Running an operation with countless child slaves who are forced to work to death, Munshun also targets "Breakers", special children to be delivered to the Crimson King and enslaved for their powers in the King's nightmarish court with the eventual goal of bringing down the Dark Tower and ending existence. Munshun possesses the most twisted killers like Charles Burnside, Albert Fish and Jeffrey Dahmer, helping them to realize their desires and to murder children as long as they send the Breakers back to the Crimson King while murdering any mundane children they encounter, with Munshun glorying in the murders.
    • The aforementioned, elderly Charles Burnside embraces his twisted desires when he meets Munshun. Forming a willing pact with the demon, Burnside is allowed to rape, murder and cannibalize innocent children while attempting to enslave the Breakers for the eventual overthrow of reality. In his pact with Munshun, Burnside shows himself to be as monstrous as his demon partner, even modeling himself after Albert Fish to outdo the past killer in evil, gleefully using Munshun's power to brutally kill the children he encounters with no care to the consequences as long as he is able to bring his desires into reality.

Edited by ACW on Feb 16th 2019 at 11:53:11 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#149868: Feb 16th 2019 at 8:48:52 AM

Lemme expand:

  • The elderly Charles Burnside embraces his twisted desires when he meets Munshun. Forming a willing pact with the demon, Burnside is allowed to rape, murder and cannibalize innocent children while attempting to enslave the Breakers for the eventual overthrow of reality. In his pact with Munshun, Burnside shows himself to be as monstrous as his demon partner, even modeling himself after Albert Fish to outdo the past killer in evil, gleefully using Munshun's power to brutally kill the children he encounters with no care to the consequences as long as he is able to bring his desires into reality.

Edited by Lightysnake on Feb 16th 2019 at 11:49:23 AM

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#149870: Feb 16th 2019 at 8:49:42 AM

Alright, merge writeup it is and some changes suggested by Devoted btw:

  • The anime exclusive duo, Mystleteinn/Mistleteinn/Mistilteinn Treesea and Ryota Ijima are vicious partners in crime who ruin the dreams of other people by implanting Dream Demons in innocent students while Mistleteinn slaughters said demons which resulted on the students becoming emotionless and apathetic towards the future of their own lives. While the former is a Dream Demon who tortures and eats others of her kind, the latter is a charismatic teacher and guidance-counselor at the hero's Highschool who took a sadistic relish in what he had done and reveals his true nature to one of his students by repeatedly kicking her head. Confronted by Merry in Isana's dream, Treesea taunts her and tries to kill her own Dream Demon she attached to Isana to harvest her. In the final confrontation with the heroes, Treesea imprisons Merry in to drown her in her own sorrow and after the Heroic Sacrifice performed by the two heroes to kill Mistleteinn failed, Mistleteinn then mocks it as being "fruitless" while Ijima spitefully beats Yumeji after acting as a sadistic spectator during the fight.

I'll add the merged version to the draft if you guys fine with it since they're Big Bad Duumvirate after all. Also, speaking of Dream Eater Merry, I might going to reserve the manga.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#149871: Feb 16th 2019 at 8:55:12 AM

What happened to comic Cicdia wasn't he Approved ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#149872: Feb 16th 2019 at 9:11:05 AM

Do we... need 180 words for the duumvirate of a 13-episode anime? Seriously?

TheUnsquished Filthy Casual from A youngun between two oldies Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Filthy Casual
#149873: Feb 16th 2019 at 9:15:02 AM

[tdown] Sosa.

(Annoyed grunt)
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#149874: Feb 16th 2019 at 9:19:51 AM

@43110 Sorry mate. thats why I need some opinions on how do we settle the writeup. Merge or separate. They went into merge but if you want to separate it. Sure.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#149875: Feb 16th 2019 at 9:27:18 AM

I'm not sure 180 is terribly excessive. Apos is 229 words, and that's only 6 eps.


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