TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#148526: Feb 9th 2019 at 10:20:17 PM

Oh and belated yes to Diego and I'm all for Kamen Rider subpages having a folders. And I won't oppose if Dn D had one due to being one of the biggest pages and all.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#148527: Feb 9th 2019 at 10:27:58 PM

And the other I want to get up today?

What's the setting?

Sheep & Wolves is an... mm, inspired take on the animated kids' movie formula. A CGI animated film from 2016, made and released in Russia, Sheep & Wolves tells the story of a wolf named Grey, a jokester who's well-liked among his pack who nevertheless is too immature to take over as alpha when their leader Magda retires. Grey is separated from the others and ends up drinking a magic potion that turns him into his usual prey... a sheep, as punishment for his previous prejudice against them, leading to a fantastic journey to unite the two sides of the wolf pack and the sheep village.

So we've heard the set-up a million times. Our candidate? Big Bad, Ragear.

Who is Ragear? What has he done?

The most feared and intimidating of the wolf pack, Ragear's a wolf who abhors the ancient laws that keep him from hunting purely for the sake of killing for fun... regularly flaunting these laws to hunt and butcher sheep as he wishes—kids included, as he nearly kills the young lamb Shia and his friend in one of his earliest scenes—Ragear shows a peek of his true nature when he commands the duel between him and Grey to determine who becomes the alpha be to the death. Ragear is mostly kept all bark and no bite for the first half or so of the film, vying for Magda's position... until, well, when Magda resolves that with Grey gone, he'll stay leader? Ragear isn't having that. Magda vows Ragear will never become leader of the pack as long as he's alive. Ragear agrees... and tosses Magda to his death off a cliff.

Capturing Shia when he witnesses the murder, Ragear fully intends to butcher and eat the lamb to commemorate his takeover of the pack, and when Shia's saved, Ragear learns it was in part due to Grey who's now living among the sheep as one of them. Taking this news surprisingly well and seeing an opportunity to kill Grey and seal himself as leader of the pack? Ragear rallies the wolves and foists all the blame on recent events on the sheep, leading his pack to their village to slaughter them. All of them. Ragear and the pack, after a long battle, are trapped in a cave with water filling in, and Grey convinces the sheep to save them. Ragear, touched by the display, shows his gratitude by taking Shia again and threatening to kill him in front of everyone else if they don't stand down, trying to push the wolves into killing all the sheep even after they saved their lives and deriding Grey and mocking that he'll die the way he lived: a failure. Ultimately, Grey is turned back into a wolf in time and Ragear is kicked off the edge of a waterfall, plunging to his death to the rocks below.

Any mitigating factors?

Nope. Admittedly the film's pretty lighthearted and Ragear spends the first half of the film as just kind of a vicious bully... actually graduating to onscreen murder, though? Changes how he's played for the rest of the film. Ragear's a serious threat and a surprisingly vile villain for this kind of movie who easily clears the standard—murdering his pack leader, trying to kill kids, and attempting a full-on massacre in the climax without ever once falling into the trap of Never Say "Die" or downplaying what Ragear's trying to do—and he hasn't a whiff of a redeeming quality.

Conclusion?

Keeper. A surprising one, but one nonetheless.

Thoughts.

Edited by Scraggle on Feb 10th 2019 at 1:07:30 PM

TheMadCr0w (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
#148528: Feb 9th 2019 at 10:32:32 PM

[tup] To the above.

As for the KR page. I'm okay if we put folders for each era/section, i guess that would work.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#148529: Feb 9th 2019 at 10:34:11 PM

And a yep. Cliché Storm ahoy! Just almost like Barnyard, The Lion King or Gods of Egypt.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#148530: Feb 9th 2019 at 10:35:06 PM

[tup]Ragear

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#148531: Feb 9th 2019 at 10:35:49 PM

Since it looks like he kills sheep for fun and not for food, [tup] to Raegar.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#148532: Feb 9th 2019 at 10:42:36 PM

[up] Yes, very much the case. Like I said, the main reason he wants to be the leader? So he can abolish the rules and have as much fun killing as much as he wants.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
AgeOfTropeEmpire Handsome Head of Hyperion Since: Nov, 2018
Handsome Head of Hyperion
#148535: Feb 9th 2019 at 11:14:51 PM

[tup] to Shockwave, Ragear, and the Top Cow candidates thus far.

I now have another candidate, this time from a movie. I do not know if he will end up being approved, as he has a couple of potentially mitigating factors, but I feel he deserves the discussion.

From the post-apocalyptic zombie movie Cargo.

Who is Vic Carter? What has he done?

Vic Carter is a greedy psychopath who seeks to obtain as many "possessions" as he can during the apocalypse, from gasoline to oil to valuables on corpses, so that after the apocalypse passes he can swoop in and sell it all to become rich.

Once working at a gas plant, Carter is revealed to have locked the rest of the workers inside the plant to die to ensure his own survival, and proceeded to take one of the workers' wives, Lorraine, as a hostage, forcing her to act as his wife as he keeps her as another of his possessions.

Carter meets the protagonist Andy and his infant daughter Rosie when Andy saves him from approaching zombies. Carter takes Andy and Rose into his fortified home, revealing he wants Andy to become a partner in his scavenging ways. Unfortunately, the primary way Carter gains possessions is by locking Aboriginal natives of the land in cages and luring zombies to them, then sniping the zombies from afar even as they nearly rip apart whoever is in the cage, and then looting the zombies corpses for possessions.

Currently having a child named Thoomi as one of his captives as well as an elderly man, Carter soon enough spies Andy talking to Lorraine as Lorraine tries to get Andy to flee with herself and Rosie. In response, Carter throws Andy into one of his zombie cages with Thoomi.

Andy manages to escape and tries to flee with Thoomi, Rosie, and Lorraine (who is bruised and bloody, with every implication being that Vic beat her beforehand), and Vic opens fire on them with a rifle. Lorraine takes a bullet to save Andy and Rosie, and Vic screams in rage as he sees Lorraine fall down dead.

Immediately pursuing Andy (who at this point has been infected and will turn into a zombie within another day or so), Thoomi, and Rosie, Vic slings racial slurs at Thoomi, proclaiming that she and Lorraine were his "property" and that if Andy doesn't give himself and the children up, Vic will hunt them until he can watch Andy eat the girls' faces off once he turns.

Eventually tracking down Andy, Thoomi, and Rosie, Vic murders any zombies in his way as he gets into a final fight with Andy, where both men are shot in the gut. Carter gains the upper hand even as he bleeds out, and throttles Thoomi before flinging her against a railroad line and cracking her skull (she survives thankfully).

Vic is bleeding out and crying since he's been shot, then grabs Rosie and yells "you took mine now I'm taking yours" before preparing to snap the baby's neck. Due to his wounds however, Vic's grip on the baby loosens, and Andy is able to take Rosie away even as Vic breaks down into hysterics as he dies from his gunshot wound.

Does Vic have a Freudian Excuse or other mitigating factors?

No excuse for his actions, as Vic is nothing but a selfish scumbag who wants to own everything around him.

Mitigating factors is a bit trickier. Vic treats Lorraine nicely enough, but also refers to her as "his" and his property. When she is shot he screams her name and seems pissed, but again, immediately after, when pursuing Andy, Vic is simply saying "you took something of mine that didn't belong to you" and doesn't show anymore legitimate concern about her death.

Secondly, when dying after being shot, Vic breaks down into tears, and ends up being so weak that he is unable to stop Andy from taking Rosie from him before he snaps her neck. He is last seen vehemently sobbing as he is left to die.

My thoughts are as follows: I do not believe he truly had a legitimate care for Lorraine as a person. He murdered her husband and turned her into wife/slave, abuses her, and refers to her as property. It's true that when she dies he screams and even takes a moment to check on her before pursuing Andy, but again, this seems to solely come off as Vic treating her like a possession. When he says "You took mine now I'm taking yours" to Andy at the end before trying to murder Rosie, Andy calls him out and says "but she wasn't YOURS", and Vic just growls. Vic seemed to value Lorraine solely as a possession and trophy, not as an actual person, and when she died it was like one of his toys was broken.

Finally, when he breaks down into tears as he's dying, this isn't treated sympathetically, Vic is just shown to be pathetic. He's been shot, and he tried to use his last act to murder Rosie, but when he's too weak to even do that Andy is able to take her away and Vic just lays there sobbing as he succumbs to his wound. I've seen some watchers believe he let Andy take the baby, but I personally did not get that impression, as he quite literally has his hand on Rosie's head to kill her, his hand simply falls away and Andy moves in quickly and grabs her away as Vic breaks down into tears while staring at his gutshot. There didn't seem to be any legitimate remorse or sympathy played for him, rather just a monstrous man breaking down into tears as he realizes he's dying.

Excepting these nothing else is remotely even potentially mitigating about Vic, he is a hedonistic brute who torments children and is racist.

Is Vic sufficiently heinous?

Absolutely. Vic is the only non-zombie antagonist, and he keeps a woman as his abused slave, locks up adults and children alike to use as live bait for zombies simply to kill the zombies and steal their valuables, and tries to murder Andy and Thoomi, and spends his last moments trying to snap Rosie's neck. He also intentionally got his entire coworker staff killed, though this is offscreen.

Final Verdict?

I lean [tup]. His "care" for Lorraine and tearful breakdown at the end gave me some pause initially, but overall I personally do not think either hold up. He treats Lorraine like an object and a trophy, and his tears at the end seemed solely due to the fact he was dying, not any remorse for what he has done or care for Lorraine (especially since the only time he showed concern for her was when she died, and even then he got over it exceptionally fast and only hunted Andy to "take something from him" like he took from Vic).

If he is unapproved however, I will not be too terribly surprised, as I could understand some hesitation about these qualities, so vote away however you feel fit.

Edited by AgeOfTropeEmpire on Feb 9th 2019 at 11:16:54 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#148536: Feb 9th 2019 at 11:46:06 PM

If he literally calls her his property and throws a hissy fit at the protagonist at taking "something that was mine" I sincerely don't think we'll have any problems with Vic. Yea to him.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#148537: Feb 9th 2019 at 11:46:47 PM

[tup]Vic

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#148538: Feb 9th 2019 at 11:47:45 PM

[tup] to Vic and anyone I missed.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#148539: Feb 9th 2019 at 11:51:40 PM

Yea to Vic

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#148540: Feb 10th 2019 at 12:06:53 AM

[tup] Gara. It's really a shame the subs call them "Greed". That's completely missing the point of the whole three letter naming system, like how Kamen Rider W had 2 as its arc number. So, ACW, only ever write them as "Greeed".

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#148541: Feb 10th 2019 at 12:45:51 AM

[tup] to Vic

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Feb 10th 2019 at 3:46:23 PM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#148544: Feb 10th 2019 at 2:17:32 AM

[tup] to Ragear, good job with the EP by the way Scraggle, and Vic.

Nathanoraptor Since: Oct, 2010
#148545: Feb 10th 2019 at 2:35:06 AM

Here's the Shockwave write-up.

  • Transformers: Dark of the Moon: Shockwave, unlike in the film, is portrayed as a brutal and remorseless Decepticon assassin. Initially a follower of Sentinel Prime, Shockwave expressed disgruntlement with an age of peace and freedom and, as part of Megatron's Defence Forces, eagerly massacred dissenting Cybertronians. After joining the Decepticons, Shockwave earned a reputation as Megatron's most lethal subordinate, attempting to, amongst other things, annihilate retreating Autobots and kill his former comrade Ironhide. Being left in command of the Decepticons on Cybertron whilst Starscream searched for the Allspark, Shockwave waged a brutal campaign against the remaining Autobots, killing, amongst others, the Autobot Chromia, and openly admitting to enjoying the sounds they made when they died. Upon being revived on Earth and murdering the Autobots Longarm and Salvage, as well as the entire crew of an oil processing plant without provocation. In order to construct a cage for his "Driller", Shockwave used a "brain unit" to transmit some control software, openly planning on terminating him when he has served his purpose. When Brains escapes, Shockwave tracks down Starscream's splinter faction of Decepticons, killing the Decepticon Deadlift for the crime of ''being in his way'' and conscripts Starscream and followers into tracking the brain unit down. Shockwave then goes on a killing spree in the NEST base in Diego Garcia, killing all the personnel, human and Autobot alike, including traumatised Autobot refugees, describing the destruction as "scintillating". Eventually, Shockwave guns down Wheeljack and Mirage and murders Elita-One, mocking Optimus Prime about her death. Later, Shockwave faces Prime at Chernobyl, sadistically taunting him about the Autobots that died at Shockwave's hand. Taking part in the invasion of Chicago, Shockwave sends the Driller to kill the Autobots, before shooting down Optimus Prime. Even the death of the Driller, his loyal pet, fails to rouse any emotion from Shockwave, who viewed it as a weapon and its death as an inconvenience. A merciless sadist who revels in killing, Shockwave terrifies Autobot and Decepticon alike.

It's probably too long; any ideas on how I can trim it down?

Edited by Nathanoraptor on Feb 10th 2019 at 11:04:24 AM

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#148546: Feb 10th 2019 at 2:47:14 AM

[up]Try to make it within 300 words. Possibly shorter.

IPP Wick Check created.
Nathanoraptor Since: Oct, 2010
#148547: Feb 10th 2019 at 2:50:55 AM

[up]Any ideas on how to trim it down?

VeryVileVillian Since: Dec, 2017
#148548: Feb 10th 2019 at 2:53:16 AM

[up]Try to focus on his vilest deeds, that make him go to CM territory.

Weeklymermaid Since: Aug, 2018
#148549: Feb 10th 2019 at 3:08:49 AM

I'm pretty new here so I hope this is ok, but I wanted to propose a version of the B-grade thor villain Zarrok the Tomorrow Man from a non-canon deadpool miniseries who tried to kill Eternity and cause (in his words) "the absolute destruction of the entirity of time and space."

What's the setting? :

The explicitly non-canon Deadpool miniseries YOU ARE DEADPOOL starts off in the first few issues as an absurdist choose-your-own-adventure comic in which deadpool is given a time machine by B-grade villain Zarrok and proceeds to travel to different eras. although Hilarity Ensues (at least initially) the final issue takes itself more seriously than the rest of the series, and explains the conflicting choices the reader can make for Deadpool as being caused by the time machine constantly creating and splitting new divergent timelines as deadpool used it and portrays the villain as a high-stakes threat.

Who is Zarrok the Tomorrow man? What has he done? :

In mainstream canon he is a criminal from a utopian future without war and spent a few 60s Thor comics stealing nukes with the goal of blowing up his own timeline, but he rarely appeared in mainstream marvel after that.

In YOU ARE DEADPOOL Zarrok gives Deadpool a time machine, with the ulterior motive of relying on the chaos and damage to the timeline he knows Deadpool will cause with it to Distract the Time Variance Authority long enough for him to replace the entire organisation with time displaced versions of himself and use the organisations resources to destroy all reality and birth a new multiverse in his image. Deadpool tries to stop him with an army of other deadpool from the timelines that were different paths that the reader could take in the series, but only saves the day thanks to a Deus Ex Machima that rendered all timelines created in the comic non-canon making them having occurred outside the multiverse.

Any mitigating factors?

The comic starts off very absurdist and before the last 2 issues hit Cerebus Syndrome , it is hard to take seriously(for example one issue is spent with deadpool fighting a bowling themed villain in the 1960s called the Pin-king of crime AKA Filson Wisk).

Zarrok however is taken seriously with the exception of a scene when the Time Variance Authority (Actally all the Zarroks wearing hoods having replaced the real Time Police ) seemingly capture Deadpool. They suddenly sing he's a jolly good fellow to Deadpool blow party streamers in his face, then the Zarroks unmask, and one gloats about his plan and tells deadpool he was a great pawn. The scene was absurd, but Zarroks actions after (attacking Eternity and trying to destroy everything) were treated seriously. He also had a line saying his new multiverse would be supreme (I'm not sure if that line meant he was a Well-Intentioned Extremist who geuinally thought he could create a better multiverse)

Conclusion?

He easily crosses the heinous standard, had no redeeming qualities and is treated seriously and stakes are felt. but the comic starts off very comedic

Thoughts.

Nathanoraptor Since: Oct, 2010
#148550: Feb 10th 2019 at 3:12:13 AM

[up]Here's the trimmed version.

  • Transformers: Dark of the Moon: Shockwave, unlike in the film, is portrayed as a brutal and remorseless Decepticon assassin. Initially a follower of Sentinel Prime, Shockwave expressed disgruntlement with an age of peace and freedom and, as part of Megatron's Defence Forces, eagerly massacred dissenting Cybertronians. After joining the Decepticons, Shockwave earned a reputation as Megatron's most lethal subordinate, openly admitting to enjoying the sounds of Autobots dying. Being left in command of the Decepticons on Cybertron whilst Starscream searched for the Allspark, Shockwave waged a brutal campaign against the remaining Autobots, killing, amongst others, the Autobot Chromia. On Earth, Shockwave murders the Autobots Longarm and Salvage, as well as the entire crew of an oil processing plant, without provocation. Enslaving the drone who would later become “Brains” to build a “cage” for his Driller, Shockwave openly plans to terminate him when he is no longer useful. When Brains escapes, Shockwave tracks down Starscream's Decepticon splinter group, casually killing Deadlift simply for being in his way and conscripts them into tracking Brains down. Shockwave then goes on a killing spree in the NEST base in Diego Garcia, killing all the personnel, human and Autobot alike, including traumatised Autobot refugees. Devoid of empathy, Shockwave mocks Elita-One's death (at his hand) to Prime's face and, later, sadistically taunts Prime about the Autobots that Shockwave killed during their encounter in Chernobyl. Even the death of the Driller, his loyal pet, fails to rouse any emotion from Shockwave, who treats its death as an inconvenience. A merciless sadist who revels in killing, Shockwave terrifies Autobot and Decepticon alike.

Any more places I could trim? I've got it down to about 265 words

Edited by Nathanoraptor on Feb 10th 2019 at 11:33:26 AM


Total posts: 326,048
Top