During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Ian and Gara
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Yes, notably Kamen Rider Spirits, which from what i've read, has a lot of potential thanks to being a Darker and Edgier adaptation of the Showa Era; the Starter Villain is a Serial Killer of prostitutes... yeah it's pretty dark. I'm reading it with a bit of difficulty because i've been busy other things recently (looking at you Gundam). So if you guys want to check it out, have fun.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Feb 9th 2019 at 9:22:46 AM
Haven't been in the forum much lately, busy with lots of personal projects.
Been looking a bit more into the Ace Combat series after playing Ace Combat 7 and being reminded of how much I enjoy the franchise. Seems like I finally came across a candidate.
Ace Combat X: Skies of Deception is the...ninth(?) game in the franchise on the PSP. Like many other games in the series, it takes place during a hellacious war and you play as the trademark silent Ace Pilot who has to do everything. Unlike all the other games, it relies heavily on Black-and-White Morality. In this game's plot, the country Aurelia is engaged in a losing war with Leasath, after Leasath just finished recovering from their own civil war. And it's up to the main character—I mean the Aurelians—to push back the enemy.
Then we find out who started the war, and things become a bit more complicated.
Who Is He?
Diego Gaspar Navarro is the commanding officer of the Leasathian army. He's also the one who started the war between Aurelia and Leasath.
What Has He Done?
Prior to the game, Leasath was involved in a civil war. It's never revealed if Diego caused this war as well, but as the game progresses, we find out a lot more about him. Diego runs the Leasathian arms industry and is something of an Arms Dealer. During the Leasathian civil war, Aurelia tried to help Leasath, providing them with food and money donations in their time of need. These donations in question mysteriously "disappeared" and ended up in Diego's pockets. A year after the war ended, Leasath declared war on Aurelia under the pretext that they were involved in the country's civil war. Shortly after the war began, the Leasathian forces launched the aerial fortress known as the Gleipnir, which decimated most of the Aurelian air force in less than two weeks. The Leasathian army proceeded to take over various Aurelian bases and strongholds.
As the Aurelian and Leasathian forces continue to fight, Diego spends most of his time attending fancy parties and showing off his military's force, or promoting propaganda about how "evil" Aurelia is to rile up Leasath. Albert Genette investigates Diego's affairs behind the scenes and discovers all of the money Diego had been using that was unaccounted for, and gets closer to uncovering the full conspiracy. As it turns out, Diego has made millions in arms dealing ever since the war began, and he used the funds to develop a new V/STOL aircraft known as Fenrir. After Aurelia liberates the capital known as Griswall, Diego flees to a series of islands while being pursued by Aurelian forces. Just as the forces are about to catch him, the Leasathian forces launch Fenrir, which decimates the Aurelian soldiers. As the Aurelian army head to Archelon Fortress to dismantle Fenrir, Diego plans to broadcast Fenrir's power over a live feed to all of Leasath, all while Genette publishes a news article exposing Diego's conspiracy. Depending on the various paths taken throughout the game, Diego is either beaten to death by a Leasathian mob after discovering how Diego used them and the war ends shortly afterwards, or he flees the country, while Leasath continues to aimlessly fight Aurelia.
Mitigating Factors?
None. Diego's motivations for starting the Aurelian-Leasathian conflict is a simple case of War for Fun and Profit. Pass.
Heinous Standard Issues?
Mmmmmmmmm, high.
Strangereal has not had a happy history. Seems like various countries are going to war with each other in every damn game, and it always results in heavy casualties from both sides. That being said, almost none of the games (except I believe Ace Combat 3, which I may look into later) have a definitive Big Bad. And there's no single country that is written off as being the "good guys" or the "bad guys." This is made most evident in Ace Combat Zero when Osean forces, the "good guys," are tasked with bombing a civilian city—and you have the option to fly around the city bombing neutral targets without any form of punishment.
That being said, even some of the nastiest characters in the franchise have some kind of Freudian Excuse, they're surprisingly honorable and respect fellow aces, or at the very least, they have some kind of friend or loved one that they care about. Diego is one of the few people who started an entire war, so everything seen throughout the game leads back to him. This includes Leasathian forces attempting to bomb a civilian city, all the destruction the Gleipnir causes, taking over various cities and Aurelian bases, the unknown amount of casualties claimed during the war, etc.
So while the heinous standard is gargantuan, it’s rare for a single person to be the cause of a game's entire conflict.
Final Verdict?
I don't know. He has very little screentime in the game, but we do see him occasionally in cutscenes, and the destructive results of his actions are shown throughout the game.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.Yes to Diego and Gara.
Regarding the rest of the Seven Deadly Sins short stories, I do not think anyone stands out in the Romulan, Klingon and Cardassian stories (a Cardassian commander attacks a Federation colony, but that guy was an idiot who thought the colony was going to attack the Federation and may have been manipulated by Garak), the Mirror Universe heinous standard is totally screwed up and the Pakleds cannot be Complete Monsters for obvious reasons.
The Ferengi chapter is interesting because it features Quark's scum bag cousin Galia, who starts a genocidal civil war on a planet to make a quick buck and in Deep Space 9, he tried to sell a virus to a genocidal dictator who wanted to kill 28 million people. The Ferengi practice a really ruthless version of capitalism, so they have a warped version of a set of morals, but Galia seems vile even by Ferengi standards, unfortunately, Galia appeared in some novels I do not have access to.
If Kamen Rider has that many, maybe we should give folders in the page itself. I just went to check it out and it's such a cluster of numerous entrees. It would be nice to, since it'll make navigating around the page easier especially when looking for a specific series and candidate. I'm just saying we should really lower the space use.
Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - GiselleI for giving the mentioned pages folders.
Edited by Bullman on Feb 9th 2019 at 8:41:19 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
