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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#148101: Feb 6th 2019 at 10:12:41 PM

[tup] Wolf Spider, Enfer and Brian

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#148102: Feb 6th 2019 at 10:16:42 PM

Easy yes to remake!Irons.

And our next candidate. No prizes for guessing who.

Who is the Joker? What has he done?

The Joker is as we all know him... a mass-murdering lunatic who has killed countless people in the past, particularly the one incident where one of his labs is discovered with the bodies of thirty-seven people the Joker starved to death, after experimenting on them with the Joker Juice, later brutally murdering the person who ratted out that lab in the first place. Broken out of Arkham Asylum by the efforts of Enfer, the Joker beelines out of the danger zone and ends up working his way into the Batcave, which jollies him. When Alfred stumbles upon him? The Joker captures him before leaving him in the Batcave, stealing everything else including the suit and the Batmobile, with Alfred left in a horrible death trap for Bruce to find him: the Joker rigs Alfred up with a collar of flowers that will gas Alfred to death with Joker venom at any motion, including Bruce trying to save him, leading to Bruce only barely saving Alfred's life with quick thinking.

So, with all the Bat-gear in his possession, what does the Joker do? Go wild, of course. Joker takes the Batmobile for joyrides, running over a woman and her dog for shits and giggles before going on to kill and injure lots more people in hit-and-runs, framing Batman for all of it. The Joker also gives Gordon an anonymous tip about Enfer's location... to set up an ambush massacring the police force and personally killing lots of them himself with fingernails coated in Joker poison, once again dressed as Batman. Oh, and before that? His goons mistake the street they're supposed to go on and massacre an entire family of five, the three young kids included... to which the Joker casually orders them to dress it up as a robbery with all the concern of ordering a spot of dust cleaned up. When Batman tries to stop him? The Joker interrupts him by tossing a seven-year-old child off a building, who Batman barely manages to save.

The Joker continues to throw more and more blame onto Batman committing grisly crimes and murders, killing the person who leaked the list of inmates who escaped from the Arkham burndown, and using his poisoned nails to horribly kill five punks harrassing a waitress, positioning their frozen-up bodies as grotesque statues "praising" the waitress. Said waitress? The Joker drives her catatonic with the poison for shits and giggles anyways, afterwards. The Joker eventually confronts Enfer and tries to kill him, ending with Enfer burning himself alive... no biggie, because that gives the Joker the chance to hijack the Krawlors he's just learned about, with his intention to reprogram to gas all of Gotham to death with his Joker Juice. Batman arrives, makes his way through his lair, and a final battle ensues, with the Joker beaten and arrested again.

Any mitigating factors?

Nope. He has a body count and sadistic cruelty to match Enfer's wickedly high body count, hijacks Enfer's plan to kill Gotham in the end, and has all the redeeming qualities the Joker usually has (i.e. none). Even his two henchmen whom he seems to treat pretty well? The Joker almost kills them in the Batmobile at one point and laughs about it. No issue there.

Conclusion?

And keep yet another Joker. I'm genuinely struggling to think of any others in a DC property who'd count now aside from maybe an untapped Elseworld or two.

Thoughts?

Edited by Scraggle on Feb 6th 2019 at 11:22:50 AM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#148103: Feb 6th 2019 at 10:17:30 PM

[tup]Joker

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#148104: Feb 6th 2019 at 10:20:20 PM

Yes to the Batman duo and Irons.

TheUnsquished Filthy Casual from A youngun between two oldies Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Filthy Casual
#148105: Feb 6th 2019 at 10:23:31 PM

[tup]All those I missed.

(Annoyed grunt)
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#148106: Feb 6th 2019 at 10:25:47 PM

Yes to Irons and unsurprisingly yes to our favorite Monster Clown of the day.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#148110: Feb 6th 2019 at 10:39:46 PM

[tup] Joker

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#148111: Feb 6th 2019 at 10:49:33 PM

"having the ability to know every rape that's ever occurred."

What a horribly specific superpower that would only appeal to such a vile mind.

[tup]Y'Fatman. Also [tup] Enfer and J-man.

RE!Irons is also an [tup]. That whole thing about letting Sherry go doesn't really mean much since the whole city is hell and letting a kid out into such a world is pretty much a death sentence. Sadly, I don't think he has any good replacement for our current Resi page image which is very simple but still oh so effective.

Mr X is the best.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#148112: Feb 6th 2019 at 11:16:58 PM

[tup] To Wolf Spider, Efner, the Joker, and Irons

So Irons is going to get an update on his entry I suppose?

Edited by G-Editor on Feb 6th 2019 at 9:17:12 AM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#148114: Feb 6th 2019 at 11:36:14 PM

Given it's a remake my guess would be Jackie's just going to give this version its own entry. Different universes, different versions of the same character and all that.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#148115: Feb 7th 2019 at 1:00:18 AM

[tup] Remake!Chief Brian Irons, Enfer, and Joker.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#148116: Feb 7th 2019 at 1:27:44 AM

From House of Ghosts

  • * Complete Monster: Isaac and General Castle. Isaac turns his friends and his wife into guinea pigs for a government weapons test, all so that he can get a big military contract for his company. General Ripper excuses the fact that the government killed innocent people as necessary casualties for the war against Communism. And they threaten to reveal The Medium as a murderer when he threatens to go to the press with the truth about what they did.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#148117: Feb 7th 2019 at 2:48:18 AM

Animeking: We DID have Cancer Deathmask, but he had a Heel–Face Turn.

Yes to Wolf Spider: Fun fact: His voice actor played Spidey himself in the Fox series.

For some reason I'm feeling hesitant on Remake!Irons, but I can't put a finger on why, so I'll give a yes. I think we can create a tree for RE2, something like "Raccoon City Police Chief Brian Irons counts in both the original game and in the 2019 remake":

Yes to Enfer and Joker. I think even if we DO use the same continuity they can count, as White Eyes is the leader of a terrorist organization, while Enfer and Joker are just 2 guys (albeit the latter is superpowered).

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#148118: Feb 7th 2019 at 3:35:35 AM

[up] The Joker is superpowered? You meaning Enfer there (and even then, it's a stretch to call it a superpower because it does like nothing beneficial for him whatsoever)?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#148119: Feb 7th 2019 at 3:41:55 AM

Whoops, yeah, I meant Enfer [lol]

So I guess he's only mildly powered; otherwise I don't see any reason he couldn't just burn everything himself.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#148120: Feb 7th 2019 at 4:17:45 AM

[tup] to Wolf Spider, Enfer, Chief Brian Irons and The Joker.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#148121: Feb 7th 2019 at 5:15:15 AM

[tup]Joker.

Why so serious?
11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#148122: Feb 7th 2019 at 5:23:18 AM

[tup] everyone I missed. I'd never have guessed a comedic show like Ultimate Spider-Man would have a Complete Monster.

[up](x6) That entry wasn't approved, I take it? Have you PM'd whoever added it?

Help me!
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#148123: Feb 7th 2019 at 5:34:46 AM

Yes to Wolf Spider, Enfer, Irons, and Joker.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#148124: Feb 7th 2019 at 5:42:36 AM

On the subject of evil versions of Spider-Man, has the moment of that guy from Three Big Men been deemed not to have been a moment of Died in Your Arms Tonight?

Help me!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#148125: Feb 7th 2019 at 7:15:35 AM

Okay, as my reread of Black House is done:

What's the work?

Black House is a novel by Stephen King and Peter Straub, and one that is set with his broader multiverse, having a strong link to the Dark Tower series. The book is set in the town of French Landing, Wisconsin, rocked by a series of horrific murders of children by the mysterious 'Fisherman', who seems to emulate the infamous serial killer Albert Fish, murdering and cannibalizing the children. Our hero is Jack Sawyer, who has repressed memories of all he endured in the Talisman, now a police officer in the LAPD. A series of clues lead him to French Landing where he discovers a dark plot from another realm, and the killer the Fisherman, Charles Burnside...as well as Burnside's wicked mentor and partner in evil: Munshun.

Who is Mr. Munshun?

Mr. Munshun, the Monday Man, Malshun, true name unpronounceable by any human tongue, is an extradimensional demon and a powerful servant of the Crimson King himself. Munshun' role in the Court? Finding Breakers-kids with supernatural power, to bring them to the Crimson King so he can harvest their power to help bring down the beams of the Dark Tower itself...and he's setting his sights on Tyler Marshall, a boy who may well be the strongest Breaker ever.

Munshun, however, is not really allowed to exist on earth, to his chagrin...except in the Black House, kind of a piece of the void he had built to dwell there. He gets around this by 'riding' people. Munshun finds the most depraved, sickening human beings with the darkest, most horrific urges, and possesses them, helping them fulfill their desires if they help him abduct Breakers. If that wasn't enough, Munshun's own personal territory is a piece of The Furnace Lands where he oversees the Big Combination; a power plant run by children he enslaves, forced to toil until they break, rotating the combines "on burning, bleeding footsies."

Breakers? Are caught and delivered to the Crimson King to train, harvest, enslave and burn out (it isn't pleasant. You'd probably prefer death to this)...but the others? Munshun helps his hosts murder other children and do whatever they want, getting his own sick little thrill from it. He's been doing this a long time, too. In fact? Some of his old hosts? Albert Fish the infamous serial killer, Jeffrey Dahmer and more. In French End, Munshun has killed at least three kids before targeting Tyler Marshall...also tormenting the hell out of Burnside, who he calls "Burn-Burn" for kicks when Burnside's age begins to take its toll on his health. Munshun frames an innocent man for the murders and seeks to use one of his servants to start a lynch mob to kill him.

Oh, and did I mention if the tower falls...existence falls? The worlds all end, and Munshun is gleeful about it. By the book's end, he kidnaps Tyler, even after Burnside's end...jack, however, rushes to confront the demon with the old energies of The Talisman. In a final battle, Jack infuses a baseball bat with the Talisman's magic and smashes Munshun's skull in, killing the wicked demon for good.

Heinousness?

Now, it's the King-verse, but...wow. Munshun is godawful. He enslaves countless children to run the Big Combination, tries to end existence, enslaves the Breakers and is one half of a serial killer duo going throughout history, murdering countless children for laughs. He's well past the baseline and even for Stephen King, this is bad, especially for a one-book villain and a guy who's just one of many servants of the Crimson King (who doesn't count, we've been over this, so please spare us the conversation again. The Crimson King is well known as the greatest anticlimax ever, btw)

Mitigating Qualiies?

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. No. No, nope, nothing, nada.

Conclusion?

Odd case where both he and Burnside count, I'd argue, but count Munshun does for sure.


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