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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#148076: Feb 6th 2019 at 6:33:17 PM

Wishing away.

Tossing in a yes to the Bogeyman and Y'gy too. Isaiah... mm. My feelings on the short aside, I'll say yes to him.

Edited by Scraggle on Feb 6th 2019 at 7:38:24 AM

Animeking1108 Since: Jan, 2010
#148077: Feb 6th 2019 at 6:44:44 PM

I've been planning on getting into Saint Seiya, and I'm kind of surprised to find out that a franchise spanning many incarnations and spin-offs doesn't have a single CM.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#148078: Feb 6th 2019 at 6:49:36 PM

There are a couple maybes. I'm looking in there.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#148079: Feb 6th 2019 at 6:58:40 PM

I've wanted to go into the franchise from time to time, if you want, maybe we can PM something and see which spin offs we can get.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 6th 2019 at 9:59:02 AM

Watch me destroying my country
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#148080: Feb 6th 2019 at 7:55:48 PM

Alright, may not be the best Effort Post I did, I may have missed a few crimes, but here's Wolf Spider's Effort Post:

What's the work?:

Ultimate Spider-Man is an 2012-2017 animated superhero series starring Peter Parker, otherwise known by his secret superhero identity as the titular Spider-Man, who is being trained by Nick Fury in the hopes of becoming an true superhero, forming an team with Nova, White Tiger, Iron Fist, and Power Man.

Spider-Man and his friends face many foes during their adventures, which includes Green Goblin, Venom, and Dr. Octopus, but none of them compare to their most dangerous enemy yet..... Wolf Spider.

Who is Wolf Spider/What does he do?:

Wolf Spider is an alternate evil version of Peter Parker from another dimension who decides to use his powers for evil instead of good, believing that heroism and responsibility to be "pathetic ideals" and would kill anyone who would dare attempt to uphold to those ideals. He also reveals at some point that he had killed all of the people who believed in heroism and responsibility, and the heroes in his world, including his world's version of Miles Morales, and his name would become an sign of fear to anyone who hears it in his world. One day, he found out about the other universes and the Siege Perilous when an shard of it landed in his world, and Wolf Spider ultimately planned on using it to destroy all of the other spider mans, and conquer all of the other spider-verses.

Putting his plan into motion, Wolf Spider uses the shard to travel to the vampire universe where he forms an fake alliance with the Lizard King in order to achieve his goals. He later fought against Spider-Man, Blood Spider, and arachnid and stole one of the shards from them. After the Lizard King's defeat, he attempted to steal two of the shards from the heroes, but failed and used his shard to retreat. He later appears in Kid Arachnid, AKA Miles Morales's dimension, where he kidnaps Kid Arachnid's mother, Rio Morales, and demands that he and Spider-Man surrender the shard that they found earlier to him in exchange for Kid Arachnid's mother's life, threatening to kill her if he doesn't comply. Luckily, the duo are able to save her, and takes on Wolf Spider with the help of Gwen Stacy, Miles' substitute in his world. During the battle, Wolf Spider reveals bio organic spider arms, and the siege perilous is recreated. Wolf Spider is seemingly defeated and handed over to the authorities... But he manages to escape from custody.

He soon assaults Arachnid's family apartment, harming Arachnid's mother in the process, and steals the Siege Perilous from the heroes. This where he reveals that he is an Peter Parker from another dimension, that he had killed his world's version of miles, and everyone else who would believe in the ideals of heroism and responsibility, and his intentions of becoming THE only Spider-Man and conquering the multiverse before fleeing, leaving an trail of destruction behind that the heroes use to follow him.

Upon finding him in his underwater cave lair, the heroes witness him draining the life force from the other alternate spider mans in order to become even stronger, which would most certainly end up killing them. Gwen and Arachnid fight against him, but ended up having their life force drained too. Spider-Man, asking Wolf Spider if he drained all of the life force from the other spider mans, to which he smugly responds, "Every last one" seemingly allows Wolf Spider to drain him of his life force. It appears that Wolf Spider had won.....

However, the other Spider-Mans soon disappear before him. Spider Man then reveals that Wolf Spider had poisoned himself with the goodness of the other spider mans, which causes his entire body to explode, killing him.

Migrating Factors:

None at all. Nothing more than one sadistic fucker with an thrist for blood.

Heinous standard: Ultimate Spider-Man is an pretty comedic show, but Wolf Spider is played DEAD seriously, and is easily the most heinous character in the show, especially with his acts of killing people with good morals, including his world's Miles, and draining the other Spider Man of their Life Force, which would most certainly end up killing them if Spider-Man hadn't defeated Wolf Spider.

Conclusion:

I say he's a keep. What do you guys think? If I've missed anything, please tell me.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#148081: Feb 6th 2019 at 7:56:50 PM

Yeah, gonna go with a yes there. Good work!

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#148087: Feb 6th 2019 at 8:34:42 PM

[tup] to Wolf spider.

Second evil Spiderman this week. Hm.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#148088: Feb 6th 2019 at 8:39:52 PM

Alright, Wolf Spider's a keeper. And here's the write up:

  • Ultimate Spider-Man: Wolf Spider, from the Return to the Spider-Verse Arc, is an evil alternate version of Peter Parker who decides his powers for evil instead of good. Declaring heroism and responsibility to be "pathetic ideals," he personally killed anyone who had believed in those ideals, including his world's Miles Morales. Upon discovering the existence of the other spider verses through an shard of the Siege Perilous, Wolf Spider decides to use it to kill all of the other Spider-Men and conquer the multiverse. Forming an false alliance with the Lizard King, he attempts to kill Spider-Man and his friends in order to acquire the shards they had found. When this fails, he would later reappear in Kid Arachnid's dimension where he threatened to kill his mother if Arachnid didn't surrender the shards to him. Upon acquiring the Siege Perilous, he lures Spider-Man and his friends to his lair, leaving an trail of destruction behind in the process, where they witness him draining the life forces of the other Spider-Men, before he attempts to drain them of their life forces as well. An ruthless, sadistic super villain who made his own name into an symbol of fear to the people of his world, Wolf Spider is the complete opposite of everything that Spider-Man stands for.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Feb 6th 2019 at 8:41:23 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#148089: Feb 6th 2019 at 8:48:24 PM

Sure there... Speaking of Ultimate Spiderman... I wonder if Norman Osborn keeps though. If my memory serves right, he's a rather scummy individual

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Feb 6th 2019 at 11:49:16 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#148090: Feb 6th 2019 at 9:00:38 PM

@Elfen I think Norman also got Adaptational Heroism if my memory serves right. Albeit not to the extent of others(This version was still evil But Geniunly loved Harry) The goblin Persona, Wich they make clear is a seperate entity might count depending on how you interpret the agency there

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 6th 2019 at 9:08:09 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#148091: Feb 6th 2019 at 9:29:21 PM

So, a while ago, I put up White Eyes from John Shirley's book Batman: Dead White. That book had two sequels... well, loosely connected sequels (canonicity is rather ambiguous between them all, not helping each book is written with a different author). The third book, Fear Itself, is being covered by Overlord, but for now, I've finally checked out Inferno, a villain with the Joker as the Big Bad...

...well, actually, he's part of an ensemble this time! Our next original DC lit villain: Enfer.

Who is Enfer? What has he done?

A former firefighter and a narcissistic pyromaniac since he was a kid who was expelled from duty by the Gotham City Fire Department after a chemical explosion explosion cost him his arm and made him start to produce an odd chemical of his own (his sweat burns, he can start sparks with finger snaps, and his metabolism is like fire), the man who restyles himself Enfer–an arsonist “poet,” if you would, who identifies with Blaise Cendrars–decides Gotham needs to burn. So he turns to setting blazes all across Gotham, regardless of who gets swept up in them, targeting firefighters to burn them to death horribly especially.

Case in point, his opening scene? Enfer sets some tenements in the Otisburg district of Gotham aflame to lure in a squad of firefighters, using a built-in speaker system to make them think there are innocents in distress up there... then blows up the entire building when the firefighters all go inside, consuming them in the inferno. After that, though? Enfer executes the next step of his revenge... Enfer burns down Arkham Asylum itself–and dozens of inmates with it–while engineering the escape of the Joker, while setting a variety of other fires to torch the letters “HAHA” across Gotham to implicate the Joker, killing over 117 people at the least and a dozen more firefighters. When Batman tries to attack him, Enfer gleefully gloats and detonates another character, incinerating another five cops on the spot, before escaping. Why all this? Enfer figures the Joker a kindred spirit and wants to team up with him, to wreak havoc across Gotham like never before...

...well, the Joker, being the Joker, isn't really cooperative, and instead makes a daring move to infiltrate the Batcave and start murdering people dressed as the Batman. Enfer is displeased by this, and furthermore when people start blaming the fires on the Joker instead of him, pissing him off because he wants all the credit... so, Enfer sets four novelty shops around Gotham City on fire, burning seventeen more people to death and leaving dozens more in hospitals as his message to the Joker, and officially marks him as his enemy after Enfer tries to burn an entire building down to try and kill the Joker.

This is all precedent to Enfer's master plan... setting a flophouse on fire to tide himself over and burning up two people who try to investigate with his portable “cherry bombs,” Enfer orders hundreds of spider-like robots called “Krawlors” with a shitton of weaponry packed in. His master plan, which he calls the “Annunciation?” Is to let the Krawlors loose on Gotham... first torching every single fire station in Gotham and killing every cop, crippling Gotham's ability to respond to his chaos, before letting the Krawlors burn the rest of Gotham and all its people to the ground. Enfer lets the Krawlors loose on Gotham and they immediately busy themselves torching fire stations to the ground. Except Enfer gets a visitor... Joker, finally coming to have a talk with the “upstart firebug.” One final battle ensues before Enfer is mortally wounded... but unwilling to go on those terms, Enfer lights himself and his entire lair up, burning to death in a (failed) attempt to take Mr. J. with him.

Any mitigating factors?

Enfer's excuse was that he used to be a firefighter until he lost an arm in a chemical explosion, and he blames the Fire Department for that. Does it excuse his behavior? Does it explain who he is, why he does what he does?

Hah. The book goes out of its way to show Enfer was a pyromaniac nutcase even as a kid who burnt everything he could and even blew up a hole in a swimming pool once. What happened to him didn't change who he was at all... it just gave him shallow rhetoric to use to start targeting people with his arson while he happily admits he's a deranged murder either way, and he gets broody when he realizes the Joker's getting the credit for his mass murders. Nothing there.

Now, the book ostensibly shares a continuity with Fear Itself and Dead White... I say ostensibly because the books appear to have zero actual continuation with each other with every character subject to major Depending on the Writer. I think every book can be taken on its own, because they're also apparently supposed to take place in the same universe as Batman Begins and that clearly isn't the case... so I say no issue weighing Scarecrow or White Eyes against him. In the book itself? The Joker is goddamned nasty as per usual, but neither outstrip each other in heinousness. Enfer's a psycho arsonist who burns hundreds of people to death and tries to turn all of Gotham into cinders because he wants attention. Easily bad enough and no other redeeming moments.

Conclusion?

Keeper.

Thoughts?

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#148093: Feb 6th 2019 at 9:35:42 PM

[tup]Enfer.

Why so serious?
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#148095: Feb 6th 2019 at 9:47:04 PM

[tup] to Enfer

Things are really about to get Fun around here
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: All I Want for Christmas is a Girlfriend
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#148097: Feb 6th 2019 at 9:56:36 PM

Yea on Enfer...

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#148098: Feb 6th 2019 at 10:02:39 PM

[tup] Enfer

Once upon a time, back in early February of 2017, I was a trying (and failing) to adjust to the college lifestyle, Duck was attempting to EP The Black Belly of the Tarantula, the Web Original CM page had been launched, G-Editor did some EPs for the Resident Evil series, and Lighty said that nobody could ever count in Resident Evil 7. Ah, those were the days.

But enough reminiscing. Two years ago from this day, one of G-Editor’s candidates from the previous paragraph was from Resident Evil 2, one of the most popular games in the franchise (next to Resident Evil 4, which is my personal favorite). A game so fun and full of action-packed nostalgia, that it would later gain its own HD remake, which I will be covering today.

What Is the Work?

Resident Evil 2 Remake is the latest installment of the Resident Evil game series. Taking cues from the awesome 2002 Remake of the first game, this iteration updates the original installment’s gameplay, has shiny new HD graphics that show off really detailed gore, and most importantly, adds more to the game’s story and characters.

Leon S. Kennedy and Claire Redfield are two people who wind up meeting each other during a zombie outbreak just right outside Raccoon City. Getting separated from each other, they must fight through zombies, the dreaded G-virus infected scientist William Birkin, and the now-unstoppable tyrant Mr. X (who’s really gonna give it to them) in order to escape the fallen city.

Who Is he?

Chief Brian Irons, our favorite raping, torturing, murderous human taxidermist, is just as evil as he is in the original, but somehow they managed to make him even worse.

What has he done?

To the people of Raccoon City, Irons is a hero, donating to abused women’s shelters, helping out the kids in the city’s orphanage, conserving animals, cleaning up crime, and making a good name of himself as the city’s protector. All of that couldn’t be farther from the truth. A hated figure even in the Raccoon City Police Department (a file has Chris warn his comrades to stay far away from him), Irons retains the crimes he has in the original game (rape, murder, taxidermy of endangered animals and even people), and while he loses the twisted sex torture dungeon from the original, its replacement is just as terrible imo (we’ll see why later).

Irons imprisoned Ada Wong’s informant Ben for attempting to uncover his crimes and reveal to the world the Birkins’ experiments (in the original Ben had just locked himself in to protect himself from the zombies). We only see him in Claire’s story, where he handcuffs Claire and tells the little girl Sherry that he will murder her should she not come with him, even pistol whipping the tied up Claire. He gladly accepts bribes from William Birkin, and when Claire gets ahold of a pendant containing the Devil Vaccine—the cure for the viruses—Irons makes a deal with her: she meets him at hands the pendant over, or Sherry dies.

When he’s not being a corrupt officer, Irons acts as the director of the Raccoon City orphanage, an orphanage controlled and funded by Umbrella. Umbrella placed Irons in charge of the orphanage, where he used the kids there as a way to test multiple drugs and viruses. The kids who act unruly or grow up are horribly experimented on, with one diary entry describing one kid’s face melting and peeling off; Umbrella passes these disappearances off as them being adopted. Other results of the tests include birthing hideous creatures found in the city’s sewer system, of which there are loads of. Its implied Umbrella had already performed their experiments on over six hundred children before one of the subjects attempted to escape, making it only as far as the orphanage. Because of that child, Irons and Umbrella promptly executed all of the orphans and covered the whole thing up, even planning to reopen the orphanage before the outbreak struck. Irons now uses the abandoned orphanage as a hideout where he carries out his human taxidermy hobby (there’s a taxidermy log located in his police office that details his captures, one of whom is a “Pig”, really a human woman, which he describes as beautiful and his forever).

After kidnapping Sherry and taking her to the abandoned orphanage, she escapes and witnesses him taxidermying Katherine Warren’s—the mayor’s daughter—corpse. When Irons finds Sherry, he hunts her down after she douses his face in acid, threatening her with death. Nabbing Sherry in his clutches, he’s immediately impregnated with the G-virus by Birkin, and when Claire shows up to rescue Sherry, Irons blames her for what happened to him because she took too long to get there. Irons immediately bursts open, releasing the creature within him.

Redeeming Qualities?

At one point he says to himself that he would have let Sherry go if she hadn’t dropped the pendant. That said, he also wanted to use her as leverage for William, and is also willing to use her as blackmail to save himself.

Heinousness?

While he’s pretty smallfry compared to other Resident Evil villains, some of his crimes are offscreen like in the original, and even experimenting on children isn’t that unique to the series (hello Vincent Goldman), Irons is still a horrible, disgusting individual who is willing to sell out his own city for profit and will happily do anything, including killing a child himself, just to save his own hide. Once again, this dude has witnessed hundreds of children dying and couldn't care at all.

Also, I think this game counts as its own thing. Sure, it makes references to future plot points in the sequels, but that doesn’t mean it’s tied to the original series. I consider the game as its own continuity.

As for the Birkins, despite partaking in the child experimentations, they don't count, as they genuinely love their daughter Sherry.

Conclusion

I think he’s a keep.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Feb 6th 2019 at 10:04:01 AM

It's Spooky Month!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#148099: Feb 6th 2019 at 10:06:51 PM

[tup]Wolf Spider, Enfer and Irons

@Elfrn: Normon has a uh....Heel–Face Turn in that show. His goblin persona is I think Made of Evil.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature

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