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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#148026: Feb 6th 2019 at 12:45:17 PM

I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this entry from Kamui Den could use an expansion.

  • Complete Monster: The lord of the Hioki Domain in the first series oppresses the townsfolk, starves and brutalizes them, kills any who resist his rule, rapes one of his maids and after she drowns herself spitefully has her corpse chopped into pieces before sending her corpse back bundled in rotting animal meat.

Help me!
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#148027: Feb 6th 2019 at 12:46:09 PM

@Lightysnake Wow, that's cool. Speaking of Ravok, where has he been?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#148028: Feb 6th 2019 at 12:46:37 PM

We don't know, sadly.

Kamui...mm, I can cover that eventually. Quote, guys? Mir posted it.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#148029: Feb 6th 2019 at 12:48:40 PM

So has anyone actually watched Katana Maidens here?

The current unapproved example isn't too badly written. So it's at least worth a look

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#148031: Feb 6th 2019 at 12:50:56 PM

About the entry from Kamui Den....

Help me!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#148032: Feb 6th 2019 at 12:51:48 PM

[up][up]Alright I'll add that to your list.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#148035: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:05:55 PM

Yeah, sure. Screw it.

The film in question is called The Strange Thing About the Johnsons which is about an African American middle class family. You have Sidney, the renowned poet, his wife Joan, and his son Isaiah who...has an obsession with his father.

In short, the film is about the domestic abuse that happens behind closed doors, but in an inversion, the son is the perpatrator. Isaiah was really a sociopath who sexually abused Sidney for 14 years, rendering him a psychological mess. As for Joan during all of this...she knew. But she wanted to preserve the image of a perfect family.

Isaiah eventually grows up and gets married. But the abuse persists. Sidney takes it upon himself to write a memoir as a compilation detailing all of the awful things Isaiah had done to him. Isaiah discovers the manuscript, and threatens harm to his father if he published it.

At a New Year's Eve party, Isaiah deliberately breaks a glass as an excuse to stay behind. Upon finding that the door to the bathroom was locked, he kicks the door off its hinges and viciously assaults a horrified Sidney. While we don't actually see it, it is blatantly obvious what happened. Sidney secretly retrieves a second copy of his manuscript and as he was leaving with it, Isaiah catches him and accuses him of starting the abuse and tries to guilt trip him. Sidney runs out of the house...only to be killed by a speeding van. Isaiah seemingly breaks down over this, and afterwards came the funeral.

Joan confronts her son, inquiring him on when the abuse started. This then segues into a brawl ending with Joan killing Isaiah with a fire iron.

So...okay. Isaiah has heinousness downpat due to the pattern kf committing these acts for 14 years, and aside from that, he has attempted murder under his sleeve as well. With the actual rape and sexual abuse, it is actually played pretty seriously all things considered. The film has its moments of Narm, but for the most part, it is played as a thriller.

For a Freudian Excuse...Isakah claims his father started the abuse, but we are given no indication of it aside from Isaiah misinterpretating one of his acts. So, it looks more like Isaiah is trying to deflect blame.

Mitigating factors...well, he was insanely jealous of his mother, and had no qualms with trying to kill her. So...heah. As for his wife, while he is shown kissing her at a party, he turns his attention towards his father. He later breaks a glass and lies about staying behind to help clean. As such, he is more indifferent towards her.

With Sidney. It's more complicated. He professes to loving him and seems truly sorrowful over his passing. But...is this really because he genuinely cared for him, or was he upset he lost a possession. Any other scene involving the two sees Isaiah as being possessive of him; he has no qualms with threatening physical harm towards him because he was concerned that the memoir would jeopardize his own life and reputation rather than because he felt guilty about it. He back mouths his father any chance he got, and ultimately forces him to believe that everything was his own fault. Even with the death, Isaiah never once acknowledges it was his fault over what happened to Sidney. With the continual abuse and manipulation, I lean towards him viewing Sidney as nothing more than his possession.

Overall, Isaiah us actually a rather realistic take on a domestic abuser which was why I initially hesitated. The film delves into how households like these exist, but otherwise, no one speaks up about it due to fear.

I'll abstain myself, but there it is.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#148036: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:09:10 PM

Sure to all of the candidate I missed and glad youre safe kaz!

Toji no Miko... If the troper hasnt responded yet... Add that on my to-do list. Been meaning to look at that show from the get-go.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#148037: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:09:46 PM

Tentative [tup] to Isaiah.

Help me!
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#148038: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:13:15 PM

Stay safe Kaz.

Also, I have noticed that the adjusted entries for the Ghostfaces in the scream series have not made it to the live action tv monster folder.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#148039: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:14:51 PM

Sorry to hear that Kaz. Hope you'll be alright.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#148040: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:15:14 PM

Oh right... Nay on Boris though. But great job at the EP Unsquished!

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Feb 6th 2019 at 4:15:31 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#148041: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:21:32 PM

SkyCat: They're going with this week's batch (though the updated ones ARE at the YMMV page).

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#148042: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:25:26 PM

I saw, ACW

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#148043: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:30:26 PM

...As much as pains me. I abstain on Isaiah. Thought leaning [tup]...

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 6th 2019 at 4:30:42 AM

Watch me destroying my country
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#148044: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:31:19 PM

[tup] Y'gonolac, Boogeyman and Isaiah

[tdown] Boris

Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Feb 6th 2019 at 1:31:33 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#148046: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:43:01 PM

Abstain on Isaiah. Mainly due to the ambiguous relationship he has with his wife. I mean they seem like a happy couple abd while he obviously prefers his father over her, there are really no indication of him not having any care for her.

Also while his relationship with his father is definitely a horrible pattern of abuse the fact that he was so broken down by his death gives me a bit of pause.

Watching the film, it seems Isaiah legitimately thinks that his relationship with his father is healthy, and his denial of being a rapist isn't even stemmed from his own egotism like say, Bryce Walker, who clearly didn't care when one of his victims (Hannah Baker) killed herself.

I am not sure but Isaiah seems too delusional to count. I mean, he interpreted the masturbation scene as his father apparently wamting him in that way.

Edited by username2527 on Feb 6th 2019 at 1:44:39 AM

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#148047: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:46:40 PM

[up] Based on this right here? I'm gonna have to abstain on Isaiah as well.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#148048: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:47:45 PM

I don't agree with that notion. It's made clear he sees Sidney as a possession by making it clear that if his father exposed the relationship, that would ruin his publicity.

As for the wife...as I've said before. He acknowledges her, but when the opportunity to get to his father arises, he pushed her to the curb.

There is no indication that Isaiah is too delusional. He misinterpreted his father's actions, but he knew where it hit him the most by exploiting his status as anbesteemed poet. All it comes off as is narcissism. He makes it apparent that only he has the entitlement of having his father for himself. If that's not egotistical, I don't know what is.

Edited by AustinDR on Feb 6th 2019 at 1:51:14 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#148049: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:56:29 PM

  • Teeki the Fallen, of the forbidden magic association Ark, manipulates their leader Soratsugu "Enchuu" Madoka by killing his mother and building his hatred. Responsible for nearly all the misery and suffering in the first half of the manga, Teeki disguises himself as various members of Magic Law Association—MLS—in order to manipulate a desperate teacher, Rio Kurotori, and plans to unleash the powers of a book that would kill millions. Toying with the emotions of a troubled girl, Teeki convinces her to join him, promising it will bring her attention from the boy she loves. Releasing all the ghosts sealed in the Arcanum-—and strangling the Executor who discovers him-—Teeki basks in the chaos they cause. In his final battle with the heroes, Teeki orders his pacifistic follower to kill anyone armed with a weapon that can harm him. When the subordinate refuses, he threatens to destroy the sweets holding in his curse, which would end up killing the subordinate and wiping out the heroes. Merging with Enchuu in a final attempt to kill anyone in the way of his plan to cause countless deaths, Teeki remains a bitter monster to the very end. Although his hatred of the MLS is explained by his excommunication from them, Teeki's choice to spread pain and destruction to many innocents cements him as an irredeemably wicked being.
  • Sekai Oni: The King of Maze is the sadistic mind behind the devils. Initially a baby forced to feel the darkness of the inhabitants of his kingdom, the King embraced the darkness, gaining enjoyment through the suffering of others and even his own, going so far to kill people from a prosperous district after discovering that they were happier than the rest. Continuing with the exploitation of the "Devils", actually Child Soldiers born to serve, and realizing that the worlds of Maze and Zera were going to crash, the King of Maze ordered the destruction of Zera, sending the devils to destroy it, causing multiple disasters, with the city of Buenos Aires being totally destroyed. Capturing the real bodies of the Cheshire Devils, the King promised to reunite one of them with her mother if she killed her "brothers", and after she did this, the King brought her to watch her mother's dismembered body. In the Last Night, the King created a shield using the lives of his people as fuel before becoming the World Devil, admitting that despite his initial claims, he really didn't care about the worlds, before trying to destroy the Earth in the name of darkness itself and his own entertainment.
  • The Hunters: Leif Bäckström, Erik Bäckström's brother, and the Big Bad of the first film, is the leader of the titular hunter gang and stands out even despite the dark and savage atmosphere of the film and its sequel. After being abused by his father, Erik eventually had enough and moved to the city, but Leif was forced to bear it for years, developing a hatred for Erik. Leif's first crime was when he fatally shot his own dog for not following his orders. His second act was after a member of his gang Tomme accidentally killed an innocent berry picker while hunting, and when the wife of the berry picker came, Leif brutally kills her, with everyone else slightly shocked by his cruelty. After Erik meets and befriends a Philippine immigrant, Leif, coming home, starts harassing her and Erik, eventually knocking her down, and the day after he brings the gang to rape her, just to provoke his brother. His final act however, is when he hears that the mentally-challenged Ove has told the police about what happened with the berry picker, and he lures Ove out in the forest to hunt, just so that he could kill him. After crying and hugging his brother who seemed to convince Leif to turn himself in, Leif instead pours gasoline all over their house and burns himself and the house down.
  • Black Panther: Reverend Doctor Michael Ibn al-Hajj Achebe, while allegedly having had his wife cheat on him and the rebel leader she ran off with having burned his farm to the ground, goes far beyond any reasonable actions. He started off by allegedly murdering everyone who'd ever met his wife—up to and including a merchant who once sold her shoes. Next, he went around starting race wars for fun. That was before he made a deal with Mephisto to try and destroy Panther just because, murdered a child as a diversionary tactic, and started a race riot in Washington, D.C. while trying to manipulate Panther into accidentally killing his own ex-girlfriend. Since then, he's mostly limited himself to starving animals to death, torture, and just generally doing whatever will cause the most harm, taking sheer glee in his actions.
  • Debuting in Once Upon a Time in Wonderland, Jafar is an Evil Sorcerer who plans to enslave three people and use their combined magic to grant his wish to become the all-powerful ruler of Wonderland. Cruelly transforming the woman who loved him into his iconic serpent staff, Jafar also murders a young woman just to watch the reaction of her lover, before resurrecting her and magically making her fall in love with him to spite her lover yet again. Though having the excuse of a neglectful father, Jafar is revealed to want to use magic to make his father love him just to hurt him more when he torments him. Upon becoming Royal Vizier of Agrabah in season 6 of the main series, Jafar tortures and kills people at his whim with his dark powers and deceives Princess Jasmine into giving him a magical ring, then threatens to destroy Agrabah if she does not accept his marriage proposal. Threatening to use the ring to disintegrate Agrabah, Jafar means to create a ghostly version of the land and seal all the souls within in limbo for eternity. Cruel and selfish, Jafar is a wicked man who cares only for his own ambition and sadistically tormenting anyone he can.
  • Vassago Cassals/PoH (short for Prince of Hell) was forced to become a criminal due to unfortunate conditions, but he proved his vileness by willingly becoming an assassin and murderer. Entering SAO to kill a target, PoH become the founder of the aforementioned Laughing Coffin guild, where he rallied together the worst of those trapped in the game-—including the aforementioned XaXa and Johnny Black—and had them slaughter their fellow players, all for the joy of seeing East Asian players kill each other. Later betraying and abandoning his own Guild to die, PoH corrupted other players and sent them to kill those who had participated in the Laughing Coffin's downfall. Returning in Alicization as a member of Glowgen Defence Systems, PoH becomes Gabriel Miller's right hand, leading his invasion to the Human Territory, killing dozens of sentient A.I.s. When Japanese players appear to try to contain the invasion, PoH contacts unaware players from the rest of world, lies to them about the situation and connects them to the Undeworld to enjoy the mutual violence and causing as much pain as he can. Finding a comatose Kirito, PoH beats him and promises to torture his lover and friends to death until he fights him while using the energy from the death and suffering of sentient beings to empower his weapon. A sadistic murderer, PoH proves his sheer vileness by always taking bad situations and making them worse for his own amusement.
  • Suikoden II: Prince Luca Blight, the "Mad Prince" of the Highland Kingdom, relishes in committing murder and expresses disgust to anything that dares live. Having his own child soldiers slaughtered by his men dressed as soldiers from Jowston, Luca happily provokes war just to enjoy the carnage. Burning a village to the ground, Luca makes a point of killing each and every person and when a woman begs for her life, forces her to act like a pig before shouting "Die pig!" when she complies to try and save herself. Decimating a fortress, Luca is found running a teenage boy through with his sword before trying to kill a young girl whose parents he had already murdered, and although she survives his attack, is rendered mute from the trauma. Sacrificing the entire population of a city to the Beast Rune in a bid for more power, Luca's war crimes prove to be so depraved he is eventually betrayed by the Highlanders who assist the player in defeating him, much to Luca's delight at the chance for combat this will provide him. Even dying, Luca declares himself "the true face of evil".

Edited by ACW on Feb 7th 2019 at 9:52:13 AM

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#148050: Feb 6th 2019 at 1:59:27 PM

There's an entry from Lonesome Dove that I don't think was approved by the thread (although the one above it was).

  • Dan Suggs is an outright scumbag who kills cowboys to steal their horses, kills an injured associate to lighten their load, and kills sodbusters —even sadistically burning their bodies afterward— just because... he doesn't like sodbusters. He's such a cold-blooded sicko that Gus and Call elect to hang Jake just for making the huge mistake of riding with Suggs' gang without knowing what he was getting into. After his hanging, Suggs is denied a proper burial alongside his gang and Jake, instead left to sway in the breeze with a sign marking him as a thief and murderer.

Help me!

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