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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#145926: Jan 26th 2019 at 7:51:20 AM

Opinions on the image I sent to you guys?

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#145928: Jan 26th 2019 at 7:54:24 AM

[up][up][up][up][up]Got it. Gone.

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#145929: Jan 26th 2019 at 7:54:36 AM

Uh I don't like the first Banana fish one (Just a guy with a gun. The victim doesn't even look scared) and Zombie princess one (Really unclear what's going on)

I like the second ban a fish one though.

[down]Imgur doesn't work for me. So I don't know how it looks Tbh.

Edited by miraculous on Jan 26th 2019 at 7:57:36 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#145930: Jan 26th 2019 at 7:56:38 AM

How about the Parallel Paradise one though? I'll definitely add that with Chaka pothole (Or Johan pothole) this week

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#145931: Jan 26th 2019 at 7:58:24 AM

Yes to the last image; unsure of the others.

Here's for submission later today:

  • Persona -trinity soul-: Keisuke Komatsubara, studying the Persona phenomenon, used his own daughter, Ayane, for painful experiments until she committed suicide. Apathetic to her death, Keisuke intends to revive her to study the links between the Sea of Souls and the human world. After Ayane's spirit caused a disaster in Ayanagi City, Keisuke poses as an altruistic doctor, convinces Ryo Kanzato to sacrifice his injured little sister to save his brother Jun, and uses the operation to experiment on Jun, intending to use him later and to get revenge on the already-deceased Kanzato for leaving his investigation. Fusing with his own Persona and changing his name to Kujou Mareya, he creates the Marebito by inserting artificial Persona inside orphans, making them dependent on drugs to survive and limiting their lives, with the intention to sacrifice them in the future. Convincing them to steal the Persona of other teenagers, in a brutal method known as the Reverse Cases for outsiders, Keisuke also creates an android to spread the Shadow Extraction Ritual in order to keep a suitable reserve of potential Persona users to attack. Lacking empathy, Keisuke saw everyone—even his own children—as tools to be used in his quest for knowledge.
  • Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers (Boom! Studios) & Shattered Grid: Lord Drakkon is an Evil Counterpart of Tommy Oliver who chose to serve Rita Repulsa instead of joining the Rangers, assisting her in conquering the world and destroying the Power Rangers, with him personally killing Zordon, Jason and Billy and becoming a White Ranger after stealing their powers. Killing Rita after she taught him magic and ruling the world in her place, Drakkon also brainwashes a vengeful Kimberly to uses her as his Ranger Slayer. Defeated due to overconfidence, Drakkon ends in the main world and is incarcerated by the Promethea Company. When Saba tries to execute him, Drakkon kills him and uses his remains to create portals to kill the Tommy of the main world before searching Ninjor and tricking him into rebuilding his Morpher to recover part of his powers, before imprisoning and brainwashing him. In a crossover with Hyperforce, Drakkon beheads one of the hostages to force them to help him to get the Serpentera before heavily injuring one of their members while they try to avoid it. Invading the worlds from multiple series to get their Morphers, Drakkon kills multiple versions of himself until almost defeated, saved by his loyal servant Finster 5, who Drakkon kills after Finster tells Drakkon, for his own safety, to stop empowering himself. A cruel tyrant secretly envious towards his counterparts, Lord Drakkon destroyed the multiverse to create a world where everyone loved him.
  • Conan the Adventurer: Hissah Zul is a Sorcerous Overlord who conquered most of the known lands in a bloody campaign that claimed the lives of Conan's parents, among countless others. Those who Zul does not enslave or wipe out are made to pay him heavy tributes, and live in fear of him as a God-like being who decides "when we live, and when we die". Upon learning that Conan is destined to slay him, Zul gives his soldiers free reign to raze towns in search of him, which results in the death of Conan's love, Tamira. Zul goes on to have an Amazon who is pregnant with Conan's child assassinated, and engenders hatred of the barbarian among the people by having mercenaries massacre villages with the aid of evil knockoffs of Conan. Not even Zul's own kin and men are safe from his cruelty; he blinded his own brother before murdering him and trapping his soul in a swamp; expresses no regret after discovering that a subordinate that he had poisoned was his own illegitimate son; and executes his own servants at the slightest provocation, at one point snarling "Who cares about that?" when it is pointed out that one of his strategies could result in the deaths of many of them. Through it all, Zul repeatedly expresses jealousy over Conan's successes and triumphs, seeing himself as a great man who should be divinely ordained to possess all that the world has to offer.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#145932: Jan 26th 2019 at 8:02:02 AM

Aaaanyways...

  • ''Monster: This work, dedicated to exploring whether there is such a thing as pure evil, concludes that while anybody, no matter now heinous, can be redeemed, it is Johan Liebert's refusal to seek redemption that makes him the titular monster. A sadistic chessmaster and Manipulative Bastard since he learned to walk and talk, Johan murdered his own foster parents and manipulated over 50 adults and children into massacring each other even as a preteen, and, as an adult, Johan is on a personal journey to become, in his own words, as dark as possible. He is also trying to find out if there is anyone as evil as he is out there, or, failing that, forcing the heroic Dr. Tenma, and/or his own pacifistic sister, Nina Foertner, to kill him in cold blood. In this way, he hopes to establish that even the best people can become just like him. Along the way he convinces children to jump from rooftops, gets a recovering alcoholic drunk before throwing him off a building, sets a highly-occupied library aflame, and convinces various serial killers to murder every foster family he has ever lived with, as part of his quest to become an unperson. In the end, Johan tries to manipulate the population of an entire town into slaughtering each other, and, failing at this, prepares to shoot a child in the head just to torture Tenma. Numerous Freudian Excuses are proposed for Johan's behavior, yet each one is ultimately undermined, revealing that in the end, Johan simply is pure, unadulterated evil.

God! This one is hard to depothole

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#145933: Jan 26th 2019 at 8:13:45 AM

Let me try:

  • Monster: Johan Liebert's refusal to seek redemption makes him the titular monster. A sadistic chessmaster since he learned to walk and talk, Johan murdered his own foster parents and manipulated over 50 adults and children into massacring each other, even as a preteen. As an adult, Johan is on a personal journey to become, in his own words, as dark as possible. He is also trying to find out if there is anyone as evil as he is out there, or, failing that, forcing the heroic Dr. Tenma, and/or his own pacifistic sister, Nina Foertner, to kill him in cold blood. In this way, he hopes to establish that even the best people can become just like him. Along the way, he convinces children to jump from rooftops; gets a recovering alcoholic drunk before throwing him off a building; sets a highly-occupied library aflame, with a smile on his face; and convinces various serial killers to murder every foster family he has ever lived with, as part of his quest to become an Un-person. In the end, Johan tries to manipulate the population of an entire town into slaughtering each other, and, failing at this, prepares to shoot a child in the head just to torture Tenma. In the end, Johan undermines any possible Freudian Excuse, proving himself to be simply pure, unadulterated evil.

Edited by ACW on Jan 26th 2019 at 11:17:54 AM

11111001011 11111001011 from Peachtree City, GA Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: Abstaining
11111001011
#145934: Jan 26th 2019 at 8:15:57 AM

@k410ren Are those guys Complete Monsters? From what I know, Complete Monster and Tragic Villain are mutually exclusive.

Help me!
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#145935: Jan 26th 2019 at 8:16:19 AM

@ACW Not bad. Though I think I love his explanation regarding how he severely undermines his FE and the first bits regarding "In This Work" but if you want to cut it... Go ahead but I would love to hear other people's opinions regarding it especially Scraggle

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jan 26th 2019 at 11:17:00 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#145936: Jan 26th 2019 at 8:17:00 AM

I remember they were both approved; Caine, at least, got good debate; I can't remember how contentious Rico was.

EDIT: I've re-added the Freudian Excuse part; the other part to me seems unnecessary.

Edited by ACW on Jan 26th 2019 at 11:18:39 AM

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#145937: Jan 26th 2019 at 8:29:39 AM

[tup] For those I missed except those who didn't make the cut.

Gonna be watching both Firestarter and its sequel back to back, see if John Rainbird makes the cut or not.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#145938: Jan 26th 2019 at 8:43:18 AM

Hey guys, this was on my mind earilier and I'm curious, was Bill Williamson from Red Dead Redemption once listed as a Complete Monster before RDR 2 came out and show Bill's redeeming qualities before he became the monster he was in the first game.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#145939: Jan 26th 2019 at 8:48:14 AM

I think I EP'd him in 2015. Got downvoted.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#145940: Jan 26th 2019 at 8:51:12 AM

Ok, speaking of which, did anyone ever tried effort posting Edgar Ross despite that he most likely loved his wife and brother.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#145941: Jan 26th 2019 at 8:51:59 AM

Nobody did because of that reason.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#145942: Jan 26th 2019 at 8:54:21 AM

That and Ross wasn't heinous enough and had Pet the Dog moments.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#145943: Jan 26th 2019 at 8:54:35 AM

Ok, I thought so, besides, despite the asshole he is, Ross is not nearly as heinous as Micah Bell was.

Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#145944: Jan 26th 2019 at 8:57:49 AM

Another thing just pop in my head, was any villain, except the King of Sorrow, from the Klonoa series ever discussed, because I could try to see if the series has one if that's ok with you guys.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#145945: Jan 26th 2019 at 9:01:34 AM

EDIT: Nvm... Iirc a banned user E Pd Ghadius

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jan 27th 2019 at 12:02:24 AM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#145947: Jan 26th 2019 at 9:03:56 AM

@Lightysnake Ok, I'll give it a try.

@Elfen Lied Fan Challenge the entry or not, there's no way the King of Sorrow would count because his tragic backstory and his death equals redemption. Though I could tried to EP Ghadius next and see if he counts. If that user was banned, then he most likely didn't give an proper effort post.

Edited by Michealthehero21 on Jan 26th 2019 at 9:05:42 AM

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#145948: Jan 26th 2019 at 9:05:45 AM

@Vile Kudrow from Mercury Rising calls himself a patriot in the same speech that he calls an Autistic boy "one of Nature’s mistakes."

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#145949: Jan 26th 2019 at 9:06:23 AM

Btw... In Light of the new animes that will come, I'm possibly going to reserve both Plunderer and Darwin's Game in later future. (I also explained that I want to reserve Fire Force so yeah...) If you guys want to collab, I'm cool with it. Although I have a special reservation on Plunderer so yeah...

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#145950: Jan 26th 2019 at 9:06:54 AM

Alright, it's decided, I'll try to effort post Ghadius from the first game, I'll have to do some research, but I'll try my best. Wish me luck guys! :)


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